Let the Record Show...

[lwood]

It had previously been brought to my attention that a user named dr_heathenscum was posting several and sundry defamatory things about the Troth in general, and Diana and I in particular, in several LJ's he'd camped specifically for this purpose. thetroth is one of them. At the time, only the two oldest posts were present; the really juicy stuff, namely several allegations about Troth practices, were in the user info of his camped LJ accounts.

That has changed, as anyone who clicks the link will plainly see.

So, let me state for the record:

• Yes, I host every site he claims -- but several more he doesn't, including many fine heathen sites. You'll find a full list on the main page of snugharbor.com.



• odinspeaks.com is not, "[my] pet project." I provide the space on behalf of the content providers, who wish to remain anonymous. By my professional ethics, I decided that a real-world contact needed to be available in case there were technical issues, so yes, my real name is attached to it for that reason only.



• The Troth has never paid me a penny for hosting its site. They don't even comp my membership fees. Therefore, no Troth member dues subsidize anything else I host.



• Yes, I host homosexual fan fiction (slash, slashfic, etc). Fan fiction in general, inclusive of slash, is in a legal grey area: I hold that, as derivative work, it is free and protected speech as long as it's clear that no attempt is made to impinge on corporate trademarks, and every story I host comes with exactly that sort of disclaimer. Others' opinions, obviously, vary. The archivists of the two biggest sites, masterapprentice.org and ravenswing.com, came to me because their hosting situations were becoming precarious, and I took them in.



• Yes, some of that slash fiction depicts persons who are under the age of 18, known within the genre as "chan." No-one depicted, however, is under the lowest US or EU age of consent (14). My legal situation may be somewhat more precarious here, and I shall have to research this.
  
  [Edit: So I have. Depictions of anything sexual, including up to and including the non-consentual buggery of dead toddlers by rabid hyenas, is protected by the First Amendment. Even when the child pornography laws were at their strictest, they didn't touch written words, and they don't now (certain sweeping pronouncements were declared unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court). Graphical depictions are far shakier, but I don't host any. Not to say that I support sexual congress with minors, because I don't, but it's protected speech and I'm committed to protecting it.]



• Because of the two above points, all of my data, including all websites I host, is backed up nightly to other servers.



• Yes, I do host pictures for Adric Petrucelli, adric00. They include some where Adric, as a consenting adult, is consentually gratified by and with other consenting adults. Adric, like many other friends of mine, came to me asking for space and bandwidth, and I gave it to him.

My web hosting is primarily done as favors to friends.

These are the gifts I give them.

This is the hospitality I extend to them.

If you, as someone who hosts content on my site, would like that site to be hosted elsewhere because you do not approve of others who enjoy a seat in my hall, then you are, of course, free to move. I wish you the very best of luck in finding a hosting provider who you can prove hosts absolutely nothing objectionable.

As to dr_heathenscum himself... you know, in medieval Iceland, manslaughter and murder were, if not acceptable, at least something one could deal with by paying weregild, due compensation from the kin of the killer to the kin of the killed.

What got you outlawed was secret murder, where the identity of the killer was hidden.

I own up to my actions and my friends. My legal name is attached to every website I host when I have any say in the matter, and it's attached to this LiveJournal.

What about you, dr_heathenscum?

[Edit: Apparently, deleting my comments and rebutting with more of the same half-truths, slants, biases, and other forms of low demagoguery is more his style.]

-- Lorrie

Comments

ok...

[malacat.livejournal.com]

So, what's the issue? Why does he care?

Re: ok...

[ardaniel]

He cares, as far as I can tell, because he's more Socially Conservative than that, and it upsets him gravely to see other people enjoying themselves. ;)

Re: ok...

[malacat.livejournal.com]

oh, that's right because that guy, who shares hosting, I heard he might be GAY

*looks away in horror and shame at consenting adults getting it on, but then...looks back, strangly titillated*

Re: ok...

[ardaniel]

If you've only heard he might be, you've never met Adric, obviously. He'd be happy to just *tell* you. :)

[emberleo.livejournal.com]

I can see what he objects to, despite the fact that I don't much care.

(Written fictional porn about minors IS a grey area to me - but no minors were harmed in the creation process, and I don't think it influences people to non-consentual activities any more than any other kind of fetish porn, so... mostly I just twitch on basic principle).

What I want to know is what the hell prompted him to go digging in the first place?

--Ember--

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Well, in the first first place?

His first two posts were a reposting of the members' list's moderation policies as the moderators interpret them and a press release about Diana's appointment as Grand Marshall of the local Pagan Pride Parade.

I suspect it is a current or former Troth member who did not approve of those policies... and his or her antipathy has only grown since.

-- Lorrie

[emberleo.livejournal.com]

What's wrong with the latter?

--Ember--

[walkyrja.livejournal.com]

His argument is that The Troth is not a heathen organization, since Diana is "obviously a universalist pagan" and "not heathen" and therefore, sicne she is somehow in charge or everything, we're not a heathen organization.

[dasubergeek.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a Roman Catholic, you are definitely a heathen organisation and you are all going to Hell. I'll see you there. :P

[emberleo.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure the Roman Catholic definition of "Heathen" is too general for most Heathens, much less the anal-retentive kind.

That said, "Gee, thanks!"

--Ember-who-still-isn't-comfortable-calling-herself-Heathen--

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Yep, Diana's the Scary Cult Leader, didn't you know?

(note the sarcasm! It's what's for dinner!)

-- Lorrie

[ardaniel]

General perception that Diana is somehow Less of a Heathen because she participates in interfaith work and keeps altars to other gods, if I was reading that tripe right before my eyes started to bleed.

[emberleo.livejournal.com]

I just adore protestant Heathens, don't you?

--Ember--

[arc-stormcrow.livejournal.com]

> General perception that Diana is somehow Less of a Heathen because she
> participates in interfaith work and keeps altars to other gods,

Well, shit. I guess that means I'm a bad CR for chatting with the Old Man from time to time. ::chuckles:: And getting a response.

::rolls eyes:: Whatever. Sounds like he's got some serious issues.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Despite the well-documented fact that the view back in The Olden Days [tm] was could be colloquially boiled down to, "What does that one do? Hey, that's not covered by any of our guys, we'll worship him too!" and "Oh, well, your god X is a lot like our god Y, perhaps they're the same," there's a large push for some sort of doctrinal and practical purity among the several Reconstructionist traditions.

Now, to an extent, this is a good thing. It would not do to talk about "Shango, the African Thor!" at a heathen event. That's inappropriate and doesn't properly respect either the several Afro-Diasporan traditions or the several Germanic ones. Those I know who are serious about practicing in multiple traditions may draw parallels (I know I do), but parallels are not the same as equations: saying X is like Y is not at all the same as saying X is Y. The multi-trad people I know keep their traditions separate, and that seems the best way to go.

Running counter to this, though, is that there are, historically, certain pushier deities who have no trouble appearing outside of their cultural framework and making a good deal of noise -- Odin is definitely one of these, as is Freyja, but elsewhere we have Brigid, Kuan Yin, Isis, and more. Today, this often results in an urge for whoever got poked with the GodStick to properly research the underlying culture, and it's been very useful to the several Reconstructionist traditions.

In my personal experience, these are boundaries that humans care about much, much less than the motley collection of wights, ancestors, and gods. Yours, obviously, may vary.

-- Lorrie

[arc-stormcrow.livejournal.com]

> there's a large push for some sort of doctrinal
> and practical purity among the several
> Reconstructionist traditions.

I think a primary source for that is anti-fluff backlash, really - people are sick of seeing folks with no clue say things such as "Flower-Goddess Morrighan", like they were talking about Power Rangers or something like that. I know there's a lot of that in some CR communities - though others are a bit more fluid.

::shrugs:: I think there's a balanced middle ground that we need to maintain - stay true to what came before, but still react to what's happening now.


> making a good deal of noise -- Odin is
> definitely one of these

Noise? ::laughs:: I'd say that laughter counts as noise. ::shakes head:: Startled the crap outta me, I tell ya.... :)

[jamie]

The very last thing I want to do is cause problems for you. If there is going to be an issue, I'll be happy to move.

If I had any doubts about the legality I wouldn't have asked you to host in the first place.

[dasubergeek.livejournal.com]

"I'm moving because someone isn't comfortable enough with his own sexual milieu to allow for different viewpoints" is a pretty shitty reason to go through that hassle.

And on the legal side [IANAL but much of my family were], as long as you don't derive any profit from the use of Lucasfilm-trademarked characters, I don't see why it's illegal. I mean, yes, they could challenge you, but they'd have to prove that m-a slash fiction would be a viable line of business for them. Somehow, I think that's unlikely.

It occurs to me that one of the problems of being a libertarian (note the small "l") is that I completely fail to see the problem with people writing and publishing things I don't particularly care to read, and thus I am out of touch with 90% or so of the American populace. I don't care to read m-a fiction, thus I do not read m-a fiction, it doesn't cross into my worldview very often, and that is all there is to it.

This gentleman needs to very gently remove the rebar from his posterior protuberance. Ven nur ik vur kohayn, dus ik kente shaun yenems tzibeles vaksen. (Would that I had so few worries that I could mind everyone else's business for them.)

[jamie]

Absolutely understood.

However, the last thing I wanted to do was cause trouble for my friends so I made the offer in good faith.

As for profit - the profit is all Lucas' anyway. Do you have any idea how much merchandise all those women buy? ;-)

Thank you for supporting a world with choices in it.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

No, ma'am. Don't worry, I get to GRAR and be a libertarian and be completely in the right with support from my kin and peers.

...it's kinda fun.

So no, ma'am, don't change a thing.

-- Lorrie

[emberleo.livejournal.com]

It's only mostly on-topic, but I'm growly upset that he's made an LJ Community of which he is the only member, called Hrafnar.

Slow on the uptake, I know.

--Ember--

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, that too, but he sort of camped hrafnar as an afterthought, given the lack of content; perhaps within the kindred we've all already been wholly corrupted already or something.

-- Lorrie

Rod just growls

[scrwtape.livejournal.com]

Rod does not like Trolls. Rod does not like the fact that *this* guy calls himself heathen when he's acting like the most intolerant right wing southern preacher. I also don't like the fact he's hiding behind anonimity ... like a coward. He wants to call people "heathen" or not ... a real heathen looks the people he's accusing in the eye and tells them himself the problems.

Now, Rod has to figure out exactly how to process this.

Rod begins to growl again.

Re: Rod just growls

[lwood.livejournal.com]

I replied to his latest post, calling him out for the nithling he is, only he deleted the comment.

He did, however, have the balls to admit that he'd deleted the comment instead of just vanishing it.

-- Lorrie

[tomobedlam.livejournal.com]

This stuff is really ugly. This guy just lurks in the shadows like a little coward taking potshots at an entire organization that he's disgruntled with for some reason. Probably someone hurt his fragile little feelings at some point and now he is acting out his pathetic narcissistic revenge.

What is worst about this sort of tactic is that it is meant to inspire fear and dissent. Who among us doesn't have some "dirt" or other that could be unearthed? It bears all the hallmarks of the "victimized" reactionary, a hateful, tiny, ugly little man.

How to deal with it? I think Lorrie did an excellent job. You just take responsibility for what is yours, and confront the poison head on.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Tom!

-- Lorrie

[firehair28.livejournal.com]

What

The

FUCK?

Who is this pompous ass, and what's with the "More-Heathen-Than-THOU" routine? I can't wait until he tells you you're all going to Hel, and you say, "Yes, every Saturday. Want to ride along?"

*falls down laughing*

[lwood.livejournal.com]

No, no, next ride's not 'til Tuesday...

-- Lorrie

[lwood.livejournal.com]

And -- AND! He is SO not cool enough to ride on our bus so THERE.

-- Lorrie

[firehair28.livejournal.com]

I also note that he hasn't attacked or posted a link to MY website, which you also host. Possibly because there's nothing objectionable thereon, and thus he cant get all ranty and self-righteous about it.

But it's also *gasp* non-Heathen oriented, and therefore it must be EBBIL! *swoon* Look carefully, I'm sure there's gay porn in there somewhere between the watercolors and the wildlife illustrations. After all, I'm hosting with Lorrie the Terrible, I must have some dirty, shameful secret I'm trying to hide... or display, or... something...

*falls down laughing again*

[lwood.livejournal.com]

"You! You! Thingy! Despicable person! You host gay pr0n!"

"Why, yes. Yes I do. Actually, you missed a couple sites, here's everything I host."

So he's retreated to complaining about what an EVIL CENSOR I am, which is pretty weird considering that the panoply of sites I host should demonstrate that I'm pretty fucking committed to free speech.

Free speech, baby.

Lick.
It.
Up.

My suspicion is that I'm looking at a fellow who violated the (clear, posted monthly) rules on a list I run for Troth members. When that happens, the offending poster is put on moderation so anything they say has to get by the moderators first, usually for no more than two weeks. Oh, and we don't tell anyone who this happens to, keeping it entirely confidential until and unless the poster makes their own noises on the topic.

THIS MAKES ME EVYL! I SAID THERE ARE RULES AND I ENFORCE THEM! O NOOOOOO!

But I figure it all works out, 'cos if I'm evil it means I get to hang out with cool folks like Fi and, of course, the unredeemable adric00, and I'd prefer your company over any nine sanctimonious asshats any day.

-- Lorrie

[firehair28.livejournal.com]

Awwwww. *hugs*

Yeah, i agree - all evidence points to a disgruntled guy you caught trolling (or summat) on the trothlist and smacked down.

Perhaps (and this is just a suggestion, mind you) you should point the rest of the troth list/organization/etc. to his alleged "communities" so they can point and laugh at his pathetic rantiness.

Mockery is the best medicine.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Why should I give him more of the attention and opposition he so obviously craves?

-- Lorrie

[hagazusa.livejournal.com]

I'm not a Troth member but I think it's fairly obvious to the average imbecile that Dr. Heathenscum is JUST ONE LONE GUY with an ax to grind. Does his "community" violate LJ's ToS? Can you report him to LJ Abuse?

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Most of what he says is factually accurate, although reported with an extreme bias against the current leadership in general and Diana and I in particular. There are a few places where he's factually incorrect, particularly where he's made a leap of extrapolation or conjecture.

However, on trying to get his account closed, there are two problems:

First, and most importantly, trying to get his account shut down with LiveJournal would make me exactly guilty of everything I'm being accused of. I do, in fact, hold free speech sacred (the list of sites I host should be proof enough of that), although on the troth-members list I have guidelines in place against certain forms of speech in order to create a welcoming atmosphere.

Secondly, even if we were to attempt to take action against this guy, LiveJournal, being full of staunch free speech advocates, wouldn't be particularly moved unless he violated trademarks, according to people I know with inside information. As the Troth has registered no trademarks, there's not a lot we as an organiaztion, or myself as a person, can do -- and he knows it, and I know it.

No, what burns me about this guy isn't the dredging up of decade-old crap (that's what's in thetroth's userinfo), or the personal poo he's flinging at Diana and I (while claiming not to hate us), it's that he's hiding behind a pseudonym like a nithling. He would have very little ammunition if my dealings were not more or less open in all the realms he speaks of.

-- Lorrie

[evergrey.livejournal.com]

Heh, SleepDepEv(tm) says:
Hellooo mister fancypants.
Do we have insecurity issues?
Yes, yes we do.

Is "get over yourself" too adult of a suggestion for him? Probably, after all he is TEH RITEOUS!

Bah, let him yell and pound his fists in his highchair. People like that, especially ones who are cowardly anonymous nithlings, aren't worth anybody's time. Let his pannies be the only ones in a bunch.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-03-19

[evergrey.livejournal.com]

And wow, somebody has less of a life than even I do right now. I wonder what would happen if such people would shrug, ignore things that didn't suit them perfectly, and spend the time they spend being all rantypants going out and doing something constructive? Why, they could all get together and build a longboat out of popsicle sticks!

[lysana.livejournal.com]

And considering how much time you're talking about, they'd even make it seaworthy.

[heathenhulagirl.livejournal.com]

I knew this guy was nuts.. This just proves it.. He has an axe to grind and he isn't going to stop. No matter what. Why he's chosen you I have no idea.. Frankly I think he needs to get a life. I have nothing but respect for you, Diana and The Troth.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Thanks, that really helps!

I deeply value the amazing diversity we have in the Troth.

-- Lorrie

[tanrinia]

i find it amusing he keeps calling the group 'progressive' and 'liberal.' i must be way farther left than i thought :)

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Well, obviously, it's that we're liberal compared to him. I've got no problem with that remark.

Then again, I know some really REALLY leftist people.

I don't consider myself liberal or conservative (left or right) so much as libertarian!

-- Lorrie

[tomobedlam.livejournal.com]

>>>Then again, I know some really REALLY leftist people

was it my anarchocommunist website that tipped you off?
bwwahahahaha

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Bah, you wish!

-- Lorrie

[tomobedlam.livejournal.com]

http://www.endpage.org

[rowanf.livejournal.com]

Okay... and how weird is this -- the only person who has "american magic umbanda house" in their interests -- are his half dozen parked Troth bashing communities. I mean. I know I'm the only person who has amuh as an interest. But this guy hijacks our whole House!? *sigh* Tres weird.

[thorolf.livejournal.com]

Yeesh. I think I remember someone on the Troth member's e-list going off about a couple of these issues about a year ago... and the fact that Diana's no longer the Steersperson seems to have escaped his notice.

I knew there were folks out there who were suspicious of the so-called 'multitrad heathens' - and now one of them nas done us the favor of posting in a semipublic forum so that I can poknt in his general direction when people goggle at me and say "WTF? Are you serious?" when I tell them about it...

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Well, whils she's no longer the steerswoman, and hasn't been for two and a half years, she still has a rather substantial say in the organization, as he points out.

As for multi-trad heathens... it does happen. The most popular variants I've seen are:

1) People with a strong connection to one deity/pantheon who are "passed off" to another, often by their patron. I know several people in this situation, and one of them put the argument to me like this: "You think oaths are very important, right? So why is it magically okay to break an oath just because it's outside of your particular pantheon?" I've yet to see a good rebuttal to that.

2) Large coastal cities in the US tend to have pagan and heathen communities that are extremely interrelated and intermingle a lot. This is unthinkable to more homogenous inland towns.

3) Out here on the bleeding edge, where we're running around re-inventing stuff, it happens that actually, the Lore *doesn't* have all the answers. If another culture's practice sheds light on a place where ours has vague hand-waving, then, like Odin nicking the mead, the thing to do is to go out there, adapt it, and bring it home. This can lead to significant entanglements, which ties directly into my first point above.

I don't think it's any great sin to be multi-trad (I live in a large coastal city, remember?) as long as you are properly respectful of cultural contexts in each case, footnote what you stole, and keep your oaths and committments as best as possible.

This is a common position out here on the frontier, in the Bay Area's heathen community.

This is not as common in other places and in other heathen communities. 8-/

-- Lorrie