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lwoodMy family designated a person to write back to me. I knew better, but hoped to be wrong in that knowing. [Edit: Actually, this may be one member acting unilaterally. There's no way to tell for sure, but my father, at least, is usually smarter than this.]
She's not even a blood relative of mine, but an in-law, my middle brother's wife. I can't say I cared for her the only time I did meet her and, well, this really doesn't improve my opinion in the slightest.
As she says in the first paragraph that my family has taken it upon themselves to share my letter with their entire church, I see no reason not to return the favor, which is why this post has no lock, and I have similarly removed the locks from my previous posts.
You have all heard my side. This is theirs, at least that of my middle brother and sister-in-law, and their opinions are likely shared in large part by my father and stepmother. I know my youngest brother is more reasonable (see my last post), and I'm fairly sure my mother will be.
What my grandmother and aunts will think, say, or do, I cannot imagine.
-- Lorrie
Lorrie-
As we did you the courtesy of reading your entire letter, please do the same for us. For starters, we have shared this with our Church, and you are being prayed for daily. To the one true God, not made up myths or false gods. The Creator, who sent His son Jesus to die for our sins. The one you deny by worshiping false gods! Sharing such horrific news, totally contrary to your families' beliefs, you cannot seriously hope to build bridges or close the distance between you and the family, or help you 'be at ease'.
As closely as possible,we're going to address your letter by paragraph, in order. There was a definite sense, when we all gathered at Erwin and Connie's house that night, that something was very wrong, a wrong spirit coming from you. Now we know why. You have been deceived by Satan, although you can't see it.
You ARE Godless, as you are without God. It's certainly true that faith isn't limited to within Church walls, it's in our hearts and an intregal part of our lives , where the Holy Spirit lives. Please don't try to draw similarities between pagan rituals and Christian worship!
Nor is what you do a call to ministry. It is trying to draw others into false worship. Rocks and computers do NOT have souls, what a silly idea! Plants don't either, although they are alive, as they grow. God created them, but they don't have minds, and cannot, therefore, have souls. It most certainly IS right to call God who He is, Jehovah. He is NOT a 'source'! He is THE source, of all life, and He has given us the right to call on Him. Jesus, His son, said to pray only to God, and in Jesus' name. If God grants us that, no human can say that we cannot address Him. Our faith DOES have the whole truth-not because of what we say or do-but because God is truth, And to say that he cannot be everywhere at once is limiting God, which no human can do. No people who have died watch over us, the Bible, God's written word, says that the dead know nothing, and are 'asleep'. We don't know what you think is the experience of female ancestors vs. male ones, but none of them do anything. We can miss them, but they're dead and not involved in our lives. God is absolutely all-knowing,all-good, and all-powerful! We were both sickened to see you say otherwise, as it openly diminishes God, and puts Him down!His agenda? For all to know His son as Savior and Lord, and to live foreve with Him! And in no way do we want you praying for us in 'your way'! The only prayers we want are those of fellow Christians, who pray to God alone. Any other prayer is utter blaspheme!
Truth and wisdom are most definitley honorable , and found in God. He grants both to those who ernestly seek them from Him. Actions not only SEEM right or wrong, they usually are. God is the absolute source of good, and Satan of evil. We have free will to follow the path we choose, given to us by God, who wants us to come to Him in love. Yes, it is best, whenever possible to be polite, and Christian to do so, to be as much like Jesus as we possibly can. But if you claims to always do it, we say you're fibbing! And four hours drive? You were less than that when you came to Gainesville, but refused to come to our home. Something about being on vacation! And there was nothing polite about the way you dominated the conversation, and used profanity with no consideration of who might be offended, knowing you were doing it in a Christian home.
Other than taking care of our pets, relationships DO end with human beings, on Earth at least. There are no general spirits, gods other than God, or dead relatives to have a relationship with. And the Earth is NOT holy! Only God is, and while we are indeed to take care of and manage it, we do not belong to it, or come from it. That list of virtues almost (big stress on almost!) copies Christian values, with the exception of self-rule, self-reliance, and troth. God wants us to rely on Him, and trust our entire lives to Him, hence referring to Jesus as Lord.
Saying that the list does not limit behavior as much as the Commandments is implying that it is superior, which it most certainly is not! The Bible is much more than a beautiful piece of literature. You dare to reduce it to a mere book? There is a world of difference, literally, between God's word to us, and a piece of literature.
We are instructed to tithe, which is 10 percent of our income. Anything above that is an offering. Just exactly how does one go about sharing their cookies and milk with a 'spirit'? Just eat the thing! We don't have to leave part of our broccoli for God, He doesn't require our food! He wants our hearts, for us to live lives in obedience to Him.
Even if Frigga had been real, which she is not, she would have been a complete fool to always acccept her man back from skirtchasing. It also shows no wisdom at all for him to do as you claim he does. The God we worship is pure and righteous. He is never indiscreet! Thunder and lightning are weather, put in place by God and not produced by a fictional hammer. God also told the animals to be fruitful and multiply, and designed them to be so. No, Lorrie, if you believe in those false gods, and follow heathen worship ways, you do NOT truly believe in God. If you pray to anyone but Him, and do not follow His paths, He does not hear your prayers. His word says that He is a jealous God.
You will always be loved as family, but ungodly practices can never be accepted and/or condoned by those who know the truth. God's truth. And there is literally no way on God's earth to compare the joy of being saved by Jesus to what was in YOUR heart! It was not the same thing, in any way! You are, and apparently have been for a long time, going down the wrong path. We know that you have indeed broken Grandma Wood's heart. This burden should never have been laid on her. You had to know how it would hurt her, but you did it anyway, which is pure selfishness. Such terrible knowledge cannot build bridges, you simply cannot, and should not, expect Christians to be okay with this. God certainly isn't, and it is Him that we follow. This is not going to bring peace to the family, be assured. Grandma Wood has probably already cried her heart out, and cried out to God.
At the end of your letter, you said you welcomed our prayer and would pray for us as well. We WILL pray for you, to see the light. The light of God. Do NOT pray for us, and they will not be Godly prayers. They are Satanic in nature, and besides, it does no good to pray to something or someone that does not exist.
We also can't help wondering why you use your maiden name, despite having been married for many years. It says something about the marriage, possibly.
As far as not speaking to you, you are the one who doesn't respond! We sent you at least two e-mails, and neither was ever acknowledged in any way. That is rude! At least tell us to jump in a lake, but to ignore our letters is not 'polite' at all.
You probably won't have any inclination to answer this e-mail, either, as it is not a request to further understanding. We understand all too well. What you need to do is open the Bible and read of God's love for us, and design for our lives, for eternity. Jesus died a horrifying death for our sins, it blows our minds that anyone can turn their back on that, as you have. And yes, you have. Pain can only begin to describe what this letter will do to your family members. Thank God, literally, that Nana doesn't have to know of this. And our hearts go out to Grandma Wood, and others. The household of Erwin and Connie will be shaken, to be sure. And their prayers for you to be redeemed will be lifted to the one true God.
Praying for your salvation and repentance,
Will and Karen
She's not even a blood relative of mine, but an in-law, my middle brother's wife. I can't say I cared for her the only time I did meet her and, well, this really doesn't improve my opinion in the slightest.
As she says in the first paragraph that my family has taken it upon themselves to share my letter with their entire church, I see no reason not to return the favor, which is why this post has no lock, and I have similarly removed the locks from my previous posts.
You have all heard my side. This is theirs, at least that of my middle brother and sister-in-law, and their opinions are likely shared in large part by my father and stepmother. I know my youngest brother is more reasonable (see my last post), and I'm fairly sure my mother will be.
What my grandmother and aunts will think, say, or do, I cannot imagine.
-- Lorrie
Lorrie-
As we did you the courtesy of reading your entire letter, please do the same for us. For starters, we have shared this with our Church, and you are being prayed for daily. To the one true God, not made up myths or false gods. The Creator, who sent His son Jesus to die for our sins. The one you deny by worshiping false gods! Sharing such horrific news, totally contrary to your families' beliefs, you cannot seriously hope to build bridges or close the distance between you and the family, or help you 'be at ease'.
As closely as possible,we're going to address your letter by paragraph, in order. There was a definite sense, when we all gathered at Erwin and Connie's house that night, that something was very wrong, a wrong spirit coming from you. Now we know why. You have been deceived by Satan, although you can't see it.
You ARE Godless, as you are without God. It's certainly true that faith isn't limited to within Church walls, it's in our hearts and an intregal part of our lives , where the Holy Spirit lives. Please don't try to draw similarities between pagan rituals and Christian worship!
Nor is what you do a call to ministry. It is trying to draw others into false worship. Rocks and computers do NOT have souls, what a silly idea! Plants don't either, although they are alive, as they grow. God created them, but they don't have minds, and cannot, therefore, have souls. It most certainly IS right to call God who He is, Jehovah. He is NOT a 'source'! He is THE source, of all life, and He has given us the right to call on Him. Jesus, His son, said to pray only to God, and in Jesus' name. If God grants us that, no human can say that we cannot address Him. Our faith DOES have the whole truth-not because of what we say or do-but because God is truth, And to say that he cannot be everywhere at once is limiting God, which no human can do. No people who have died watch over us, the Bible, God's written word, says that the dead know nothing, and are 'asleep'. We don't know what you think is the experience of female ancestors vs. male ones, but none of them do anything. We can miss them, but they're dead and not involved in our lives. God is absolutely all-knowing,all-good, and all-powerful! We were both sickened to see you say otherwise, as it openly diminishes God, and puts Him down!His agenda? For all to know His son as Savior and Lord, and to live foreve with Him! And in no way do we want you praying for us in 'your way'! The only prayers we want are those of fellow Christians, who pray to God alone. Any other prayer is utter blaspheme!
Truth and wisdom are most definitley honorable , and found in God. He grants both to those who ernestly seek them from Him. Actions not only SEEM right or wrong, they usually are. God is the absolute source of good, and Satan of evil. We have free will to follow the path we choose, given to us by God, who wants us to come to Him in love. Yes, it is best, whenever possible to be polite, and Christian to do so, to be as much like Jesus as we possibly can. But if you claims to always do it, we say you're fibbing! And four hours drive? You were less than that when you came to Gainesville, but refused to come to our home. Something about being on vacation! And there was nothing polite about the way you dominated the conversation, and used profanity with no consideration of who might be offended, knowing you were doing it in a Christian home.
Other than taking care of our pets, relationships DO end with human beings, on Earth at least. There are no general spirits, gods other than God, or dead relatives to have a relationship with. And the Earth is NOT holy! Only God is, and while we are indeed to take care of and manage it, we do not belong to it, or come from it. That list of virtues almost (big stress on almost!) copies Christian values, with the exception of self-rule, self-reliance, and troth. God wants us to rely on Him, and trust our entire lives to Him, hence referring to Jesus as Lord.
Saying that the list does not limit behavior as much as the Commandments is implying that it is superior, which it most certainly is not! The Bible is much more than a beautiful piece of literature. You dare to reduce it to a mere book? There is a world of difference, literally, between God's word to us, and a piece of literature.
We are instructed to tithe, which is 10 percent of our income. Anything above that is an offering. Just exactly how does one go about sharing their cookies and milk with a 'spirit'? Just eat the thing! We don't have to leave part of our broccoli for God, He doesn't require our food! He wants our hearts, for us to live lives in obedience to Him.
Even if Frigga had been real, which she is not, she would have been a complete fool to always acccept her man back from skirtchasing. It also shows no wisdom at all for him to do as you claim he does. The God we worship is pure and righteous. He is never indiscreet! Thunder and lightning are weather, put in place by God and not produced by a fictional hammer. God also told the animals to be fruitful and multiply, and designed them to be so. No, Lorrie, if you believe in those false gods, and follow heathen worship ways, you do NOT truly believe in God. If you pray to anyone but Him, and do not follow His paths, He does not hear your prayers. His word says that He is a jealous God.
You will always be loved as family, but ungodly practices can never be accepted and/or condoned by those who know the truth. God's truth. And there is literally no way on God's earth to compare the joy of being saved by Jesus to what was in YOUR heart! It was not the same thing, in any way! You are, and apparently have been for a long time, going down the wrong path. We know that you have indeed broken Grandma Wood's heart. This burden should never have been laid on her. You had to know how it would hurt her, but you did it anyway, which is pure selfishness. Such terrible knowledge cannot build bridges, you simply cannot, and should not, expect Christians to be okay with this. God certainly isn't, and it is Him that we follow. This is not going to bring peace to the family, be assured. Grandma Wood has probably already cried her heart out, and cried out to God.
At the end of your letter, you said you welcomed our prayer and would pray for us as well. We WILL pray for you, to see the light. The light of God. Do NOT pray for us, and they will not be Godly prayers. They are Satanic in nature, and besides, it does no good to pray to something or someone that does not exist.
We also can't help wondering why you use your maiden name, despite having been married for many years. It says something about the marriage, possibly.
As far as not speaking to you, you are the one who doesn't respond! We sent you at least two e-mails, and neither was ever acknowledged in any way. That is rude! At least tell us to jump in a lake, but to ignore our letters is not 'polite' at all.
You probably won't have any inclination to answer this e-mail, either, as it is not a request to further understanding. We understand all too well. What you need to do is open the Bible and read of God's love for us, and design for our lives, for eternity. Jesus died a horrifying death for our sins, it blows our minds that anyone can turn their back on that, as you have. And yes, you have. Pain can only begin to describe what this letter will do to your family members. Thank God, literally, that Nana doesn't have to know of this. And our hearts go out to Grandma Wood, and others. The household of Erwin and Connie will be shaken, to be sure. And their prayers for you to be redeemed will be lifted to the one true God.
Praying for your salvation and repentance,
Will and Karen
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no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 12:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 12:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 12:54 am (UTC)*hugs*
Laura
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 12:59 am (UTC)Thank you.
-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 01:00 am (UTC)I mean, I could write back a nice long letter that refuted several of her points with much scholarly fu, but that'd be casting pearls before swine while trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, or something. 8-P
-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 01:01 am (UTC)-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 01:03 am (UTC)Someone asked me, after I wrote it, if I thought my family would reply negatively.
I answered like this:
If someone you loved was about to walk off a cliff, wouldn't you stop them from doing such an obvoiusly stupid and self-destructive thing?
This is exactly like that, only worse, because if I continue to insist that there's no cliff, I'll be damned for all time.
Frankly, I'd be more, but differently, hurt if there were no response at all... because it would mean they didn't care enough to try and stop me.
So, yeah, I expected this. *sigh*
*hugs*
-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 01:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 02:51 am (UTC)*I'll* be happy to stop up Gainesville way and show the north central *idiots* a thing or two.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 02:55 am (UTC)In my experience, when a group responds to something, you really only get the response of the loudest members. So while some of the reaction comes from the whole of the family, the vehemence probably doesn't. Individual communications may show more openness and a more nuanced view of relgion.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 03:54 am (UTC)[hugs for you]
(but the self-contradiction is impressive, eh? "DON'T DO IT IT'S BAD BAD BAD! Besides which, it's not real, so it's pointless." erm ...)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 04:56 am (UTC)::hugs:: Sorry you had to go through this...I get the sense this isn't going to make things any easier. I wouldn't mind giving them an earfull, but, somehow, I doubt that it'd do any good. :(
((((Lorrie))))
Date: 2004-11-09 05:15 am (UTC)(And damn it, landwights love cookies!!)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:47 am (UTC)I could also say something about self-righteousness not being very Christian, but as they'd never see it, there's no need. Not to mention the sharing of family business...
*hugs*
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:55 am (UTC)Is it still love if they do not believe it so?
-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:57 am (UTC)Don't forget illogic, bad writing, and other assorted asshattery along with the rudeness and the like. Oh, and miscellaneous potshots at my marriage, and making gross assumptions about other family members.
*hugs!* Well, reasoning obviously didn't do any good with this pair...
-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:57 am (UTC)Why Florida?
-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:58 am (UTC)First off, remember that your brother Mikey seemed to be more receptive, at least from what you said.
Second off, you like this woman and her husband least of all. So yes it certainly hurts, but how much does it matter, really?
Thirdly - I'd place a phone call to Granny Wood, and hear it from her myself, were I you. I don't like this woman's attempt to try and sever you from your grandmother by using your grandmother's emotions against you. We're hearing what *this woman* tells us, but that might, or might not, be what Granny Wood is actually saying/feeling/thinking.
Of course the heathen in me is tempted to reject their prayers for you as *just* as godless as they think ours are. But that would be snide at the least and an arrogance regarding my faith that is inappropriate. So instead, I will say this:
Ancestors of my friend, the family is being rent with strife. I ask you, please, to look upon your family, and see if you can return it to peace. Alfar and Disir of us all, and of Lorrie's family in particular, help to mend this rift so that this family can remain strong. Send understanding, and share your wisdom. Thank you.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:59 am (UTC)She runs the gamut, here, from rudeness to ignorance to personal attacks, all the while accusing you of the same. Hon, I'm so sorry, and I'm more impressed than ever that you dared to do this, knowing that this would be the most likely response.
I will join you in praying for them, to hel with whether or not they want it. (If our Gods aren't real, why are they so afraid of having Them prayed to on their behalf?)
In the meantime, at least your younger brother supports you. You haven't heard from your grandmother yet, and she may be more understanding than Will and Karen seem to assume. And you haven't actually heard from your father or mother yet, so W&K are *not* the spokespersons for your entire family. I hope you get better responses from the others.
Remember that your friends and your Gods love you! ((((hugs))))
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 06:02 am (UTC)After all, I know that my brother is in my corner, and my father, whatever his faults, is an intelligent man. I do not know what my grandmother will say, but that will hurt more than random poo flung by my brother's wife, whom I hardly know.
-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 06:03 am (UTC)Would it help if I say I think I have more in common with *you* than with them, Anglican as I am? I certainly don't believe Satan is the source of all evil--that's not Christianity, that's dualism, condemned as a heresy some sixteen hundred years ago. Nor is it Christianity to deputize the least likable member of the family to write a letter chastising the wayward child with threats of hell. In my opinion.
Anyway, here's a hug, and *I'm* praying for you, too. PS, I also think rocks have spirits. Call me a Christian animist.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 06:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 06:06 am (UTC)that's the best way I can put it. The theological points aside, they take great pains to attempt to hurt and demean you, and prove that they are "better" than you.
It makes me very angry - if they cared for you at all, they would not write such foulness, such horrible things.... I am sorry such people are in your family. As someone else noted,though, I doubt their views are shared by everyone they supposedly "speak" for, or even ANYONE but themselves.
I suspect you'll get other, quieter communications through your brother once the idiots have been distracted elsewhere.
Stay strong, Lorrie. You're loved by many.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 06:07 am (UTC)I mean, I know more about the history of her faith than she does, but it's just not bloody worth it.
-- Lorrie
Re: ((((Lorrie))))
Date: 2004-11-09 06:08 am (UTC)I know they do! They learned it from Yulfodr!
-- Lorrie