Today's Post from Freya Aswynn

[lwood]

The latest entry in Freya Aswynn's blog is one whose sentiment I can sort-of understand, but whose message I find rather disturbing.

Go. Read. I'll be here when you get back.

Calling on fear and mistrust of any religion is to call for fear and mistrust of others.

The statement that "Islamophobia is just common sense!" is a great way for someone else to point out, with arguably more justification, that religions that arise from any nationalistic tendencies should be feared, and that this is also "just common sense"--the common thread that should arouse enmity is not any one religion.

As to "but it's in their religion to" [fill in some kind of obviously unacceptable behavior]--well, all right. My religion--Freya Aswynn's religion--has rather a lot to say about the slender justifications one needs to take another's life. Our heroes are known best for the trail of dead left in their wake.

We are, however, hardly alone here:

Those other Canaanites didn't pack up and leave just because one collection of tribes known as Israel suddenly wanted to carve out their own chunk.

The Protestants and Roman Catholics didn't calmly and cheerfully hand England off between them like kids playing catch.

I think it breaks down to this:

The vast majority of human beings gets out of bed each day and decides, each one, not to be an asshole.

Wouldn't it be nice if more people did?

Reasonable accommodations on a per-religion basis aren't the beginning of the slippery slope to establishment of the shari'a in Belgium--reasonable accommodations for one up-and-coming religion, I firmly believe, are steps towards tolerance of, for, and by all.

And no creed has cornered the market on good, or bad, behavior.

It still comes down to getting up each morning and pledging, by whatever you hold holy, to remember as well as possible that you're not an asshole. This pledge is made in the full understanding that you will sometimes forget you're not an asshole, but one hopes, and pledges, nonetheless.

Thus endeth the rant.

-- Lorrie

Comments

[apel.livejournal.com]

Umm, yeah, I sat there squirming through her whole diatribe. The thing is if you don't like The Other, try not to become like Them.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Damn straight.

[herbmcsidhe.livejournal.com]

um, yeah.

However, The vast majority of human beings gets out of bed each day and decides, each one, not to be an asshole.

Or, as James T. Kirk used to phrase it "I ... will not ... kill ... today."

[lwood.livejournal.com]

*cough* Why yes! That film clip had crossed my mind, however could you tell?

*grin*

-- Lorrie

[walkyrja.livejournal.com]

I have to say I couldn't get through much more than the first paragraph of Freya's anti-Islamic rant. Too incendiary for my tastes.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

It's not an uncommon opinion in Europe, mind--it seems to me akin to the anti-immigration frothing in the US, and is occasionally spouted by the same persons.

Don't like it either way I get it.

-- Lorrie

[faeryl.livejournal.com]

YARF! I will read her rantings *after work* what little I skimmed seemed pretty damn offensive and not something I want ye olde computer monitors here to see. If that sort of thing continues I'll have to nix her feed. :-(

totally OT

[razorsharpblade.livejournal.com]

Icon love! Might I pinch it?

fear anger hatred

[razorsharpblade.livejournal.com]

And one could get all Yoda on everyone's ass too.

I ended up only skimming it because I find that kind of diatribe extremely difficult to read, and tbh I worry that it will end up being posted onto every Asatru/Heathen list thereby giving others the opportunity to stir up even more anxiety.

Then there's the pot calling the kettle black thing. I'm sure the people from other countries will cheerfully remind European countries about the devastation of so many cultures due to colonialism. A figure from another religion once mentioned that thing about the person without 'sin' casting the first stone ... can't see anyone who fits that bill here!

Re: fear anger hatred

[lwood.livejournal.com]

*sigh* I know. The trouble is, she honestly thinks she's doing right--so would anyone in that position, or they wouldn't bloody do it.

-- Lorrie

[keristor.livejournal.com]

The thing which frightened me was that there is just enough truth in there that I can see people taking it as a serious "call to arms". And that is enough to get the government in the UK talking about "inciting hatred" and clamping down not only on the person who wrote it but also on any 'associates' (think other pagan groups).

[lwood.livejournal.com]

*groan*

[snowwy.livejournal.com]

Having had the privilege of meeting her (and playing host to her) myself many years ago, I have to say I am greatly disappointed by this turn in her sympathies. This screed reads almost as if she's forgotten that she herself is a member of a minority religion - one that has been and still is a frequent target of scurrilous attacks of about the same quality as those leveled against Islam in that essay.

How many times has any given Asatruar heard something along the lines of "All (Asatru/Norse Recons/Odinists/name-your-label-here) are racists." And how many times have we caught people stopping just short of "and the religion ought to be monitored/kneecapped/banned/eliminated entirely"?

That there are some who can fail to take the lesson from our own experiences is both disturbing and disheartening. Especially when that some can include our leading lights.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Honestly, her blog needs an editor. *headdesk*.

-- L

[e-falki.livejournal.com]

And what pray tell will Aswynn and her friends in the SIOE (http://sioe.wordpress.com/) do if and when a Muslim country such as Turkey is finally admitted into the European Union in several more years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union)? Not to mention as well that the European Balkan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans) countries have had Muslims and Chrisitians living side by side next to one another for centuries.

I completely agree with you that to call on fear and mistrust of any religion is to call for fear and mistrust of others. Speaking as someone who has formerly lived and worked overseas in Turkey, I can definitely say that not all Muslims are rampaging intolerant religious zealots.

Nice job, Aswynn. Thanks for being the voice of tolerance and reason on behalf of the greater Heathen community.

(Yes, that last above sentence was typed out in full and dripping sarcasm).

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Indonesia! Biggest freakin' Muslim country in the world!

--but--this is why I didn't use it as an example, nor nearby Malaysia:

They do, or can, have the huddud (Islamic legal code) in place, either as a replacement that only applies to Muslims, or just dropped in for everyone. This can cause a lot of, er, interesting friction in divorce (and other!) cases, particularly if one of a couple converts to Islam. As Islam doesn't really allow mixed marriages, the convert could appeal to the shari'a for divorce.

I seem to recall a recent case where a lady, who had "converted" so she could marry a man, wanted to divorce and convert again. She was denied the divorce, and I don't doubt her speech was very circumspect, as under Islamic law, the penalty for trying to convert is death.

I'm not saying there aren't deep-rooted social justice issues here--but xenophobia is not the answer.

*sigh*

-- Lorrie

[norsebiker43.livejournal.com]

First thing that came to mind when I read this was "sounds a LOT like the right-wing/Republican junk my brother sends me.
(he's just to the right of McCain but left of Huckabee)
If I were to put a tag (bad thing to do, I know) on this, it would be that Ms. Aswynn is moving to the right quite heavily. Maybe well short of the neo-Nazi's and their ilk, but still in that direction.

Just my $0.02


Blackheart the Norsebiker

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Right--like I said to Patty, this reminds me of anti-immigration (when it's really anti-Mexican, who's fooled here?) rants here in the US.

-- Lorrie

[toasterstrumpet.livejournal.com]

Wow. That was disturbing,

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Ayuh.

-- L

[thorolf.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that I find it a little amusing sometimes (when I don't find it depressing) to see co-religionists painting others with the same damned broad brush that they bitch a blue streak about when it's applied to us...

"How dare Faux News paint us a a bunch of neo-Nazis?!?"

Weeeellll... you see, there are a few folks who -

"I'm not one, and I resent people saying so! After all, they don't brand Christianity that way because of the KKK/David Koresh/Richard Butler!"

Actually, percentage-wise, -

"I'm pissed off! I'm writing a letter!

Sigh.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

*sigh* Yep. Just so.

-- Lorrie

[countgeiger.livejournal.com]

Ye gods..

When did she start working in PR for the OR??

[lwood.livejournal.com]

*cough* She was in the Odinnic Rite long before she visited California and met any of us, actually.

-- Lorrie

[emberleo.livejournal.com]

Oy. Thank you for articulating just exactly what I find wrong with her rant.

My brain went splodey by the end of the third paragraph, and that tends to make me inarticulate, so coming back to your well reasoned response that just happens to say everything I was trying to think is something of a relief.

--Ember--

[lwood.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. 8-)

-- Lorrie

[jmkelly.livejournal.com]

So at least one pagan can channel Michael Savage.

May I point out that her writing flags her as an idiot? Examples:

" . . . democracy is failing in Islamic countries and giving way to Islamic theocracy." Except of course in Turkey, Malaysia, and Indonesia (the largest Muslim country in the world), all of which have Islamist parties but still practice representative democracy. Indonesia, in particular, is managing well the tricky transition from Suharto's authoritarian state to democracy.

"Totalitarianism is the antithesis of liberty. Theocracy is the antipathy of democracy." And her writing is the antithesis of good English. I think she was trying to say that totalitarianism is the enemy of liberty, and likewise theocracy is the enemy of democracy. Not that I disagree, but ten-dollar words are like expensive tools: if you don't know how to use them, you should leave them alone.

" . . . self-loathing, guilt-laden politicians not only of the 'liberal' persuasion, but also capitalist free-marketeers . . . undermine our ways of life, stifle dissent from their edicts and spread feelings of political remoteness and hopelessness among the majority of European people. This is exactly the kind of totalitarianism we fought against in World War Two and the Cold War." ORLY? I could have sworn we fought to expel Germany from France and Eastern Europe, and to prevent it from taking over the British Isles and Scandinavia; and that we fought the Cold War to contain and discourage Marxism-Leninism -- which was more about controlling all means of production and every aspect of people's lives than it was about instilling feelings of any kind.

The score: two errors of fact and one malapropism -- about the same as one of George W. Bush's speeches. Having read this much of her blog, I can't imagine why anyone would read any of it.

By the way, I'm only posting this here because Freya-Aswynn has closed comments already. Loves her free speech, doesn't she?

[lwood.livejournal.com]

In her (very) weak defense, English isn't her first language, but I think I'm going to otherwise fall back to my first statement: she could use some more moderate person to stand between her and the post button.

I don't know what her usual policy about comments is, either: perhaps she doesn't ordinarily permit them. I usually just read, wince, and move on. Today, I spoke up.

-- Lorrie

[ardaniel]

See also http://pkmorrison.livejournal.com/69140.html. Mrs. Morrison is a decent fantasy author and obviously a respected Pagan priestess in some circles, but as a pundit...

....yyyyyyeah. *wince.*

[lwood.livejournal.com]

*wince*

I'm just waiting for Jordsvin to break this to the Troth lists, at which point all hell's out for noon.

-- Lorrie

[witchchild]

yeeeeeeah. I skimmed her post at work earlier then stopped when the nausea hit. My first reaction was to remind her of Medieval Spain. :/

[lwood.livejournal.com]

nnrgh.

Throwing bricks.

[evergrey.livejournal.com]

Could not read it. Too vile.

Ya know, I was discussing with a friend of mine, over a nice bowl of Unagi-over-rice, a possible method of gaging whether or not I want to associate with someone. After much discussion, we decided that it was too complicated, that there were too many variables, but let me just boil it down anyway:
How readily will this person throw bricks at shit?
How readily will this person throw bricks at people?
How readily will this person throw bricks at people they don't even know?

Ahh, bricks. The Homo Sapiens version of monkey poo. Except it does a lot more damage. Actually, most things we do tend to do a lot more damage. :p

Anyway, I think that Aswynn has just gotten herself into my "likely to throw bricks at people she doesn't even know" category, even if they ARE, for the moment, metaphorical bricks.

Eh, we always knew she was Nutters. I mean, a lot of people into the Deep Woo are, it helps having one foot in one world and another in the other, but there's nutters, and there's Nutters.

Trying to spear a wedding guest after knocking a few back, to sacrifice them to Odin? Nutters.

Re: Throwing bricks.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

I'd always been of the stance of "well, she's a nut, but she's our nut."

Now I'm less sure--on the other hand, no single statement, no matter how much "!?WTF?!" it generates, should ever wholly change one's opinion about another. So: now I'm less sure.

-- Lorrie

[erynn999.livejournal.com]

*headdesk*

Islam is as much the religion of Rumi as of the fanatic assholes who throw bombs. What she's saying about Islam (and this has the look of something she got forwarded off the net in translation) could be equally applied to most religions at some point in their history, particularly the monotheist ones, though even the Buddhists (anybody remember King Ashoka and other Buddhist rulers who went to war?) have been known to kick some ass occasionally in a bad way.

Stupidity is a human characteristic. Freya seems to have imbibed deeply of that well in this post.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

I think my underlying point here is this:

At every point in their history, each of the significant world religions went through a Right Asshat Phase. Judaism kicked the snot out of the other Canaanite tribes, Christianity had Crusades, Inquisitions, and many more--now it's Islam's turn.

Now, in Europe, according to the forwarded post, it appears that inequitable accomodation is being made to Muslims--not having studied the situation, I don't really know. If that's the case, then clearly that needs to be dealt with.

However, all the countries of Europe still have state-supported religion--it's become recently so that one may choose between a number of state-supported religions, and freedom of religion is right there in the EU charter, so I think there's some underlying stress here that I just don't have the perspective to understand.

Except I do know that Islamophobia is right out.

-- Lorrie

[quirkwidget.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, intolerance is the petri-dish in which Happy Democracies are incubated.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

OI.

-- Lorrie

[alfrecht.livejournal.com]

Thanks for drawing attention to this.

Jeez, where does one begin?

I won't throw stones at someone else's religion, or say too much on if any of what she stated is right or wrong about Islam. I am horrified by some of the things I've read in the Qu'ran, but I also affirm to myself constantly that most (though not all) of the Muslims I've had the pleasure of meeting don't wish me dead, or want to convert me, or think lesser of me, and I must assume that the majority of them are the same.

However, I will say about people in my own religion--or, rather, the faction of the religion that now "proudly" claims the most members--that they have just jumped off the deep end in ways I couldn't imagine it would have been possible to do...yet again. The leader of that faction just said that Hadrian invented fascism, and that all of the Latin-descended peoples understand it deeply, and that what the world needs now is MORE fascism, just like the old days.

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK?

So, we may only be a group of around 30 people in the Ekklesia Antinoou, but I'm glad to say that we're around 30 people who are actually sane and logical, and who attempt as far as possible not to be assholes on a daily basis, or ever if it can be helped. Alas.

[neohippie.livejournal.com]

This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes me think I'm too much of a xenophile to be Asatru. All too often I run into this attitude of "We have to keep the European people PURE! Oh noes the Brown People are going to come in and pollute our culture/genes/religion with their influence! We have to DEFEND OURSELVES or the Mighty White Race will die out!"

Reminds me of a thing I read a while back on... maybe it was the AFA website, about the horrible threat of Aztec Reconstructionism, since the Aztec gods are bad and scary and want human sacrifice.

Um... well, you can see why I wondered if that was maybe a joke. Because... dude.

Anyway, even seemingly tame stuff like going on about how we should be proud to be White Folk because the harsh climate of the North toughened us up to be the kickass people we are today, while the people of the "mild climate" of the South had it easy... I think, ever hear of malaria? I think maybe those sentiments were in Northern Mysteries and Magick, but I can't remember for sure. Anyway, living in Texas I can certainly appreciate the onereyness of the southern wights around here. You do not want to piss them off. Dying of thirst is not a nice way to go.

Um, anyway, I'm digressing. But yeah, xenophilia, apparently not a good thing in this community. I wish Odin would leave me alone so I wouldn't have to deal with this shit.

[illuviel.livejournal.com]

Um. Ergh.

Aswynn's post that inspired your commentary and your correspondents' replie and discussion fairly well sum up my experience with Heathenry to date and well-reflect a dilemma I find myself in.

Well, not one I find myself in, but one to which I find myself invited in recent email: to overlook some things one finds unsavory in people, in order to grow Heathenry.

Grow Heathenry into *what*?, I find myself wondering.

I'm not sure which subset of heathens the writer considered hirself needing to put up with "for the growth of Heathenry's sake", but from whatever angle you slice it, oh so very much check please.

This is the state I already was in, this week, before reading Aswynn's blog. Now?

My entire being rebels.

Fundamentalism, exclusivity, the sentiment that "our god can beat up your god and culture and our culture's humans are the best and most Human (in fact, the only ~real~ humans) thereby" ...in any faith, is the enemy, doubly to be guarded against in one's own.

I'm attempting to formulate a more thorough, less disgusted reply to the world in general, but I'm having difficulty.

I leave the house, metaphorically, engaging in interaction with "The Heathen Community" [tm] ... why, exactly? Hanging out with eclectic pagans, or Unitarians, or ... almost anyone else, I have much less chance of being painted with someone else's brush subsequently ending up on a watch list.

Ugh.

If I'm to be painted as anything, let it be as a queer, half-breed, mongrel, multi-cultural, universalist, mystic fluffbunny and/or supporter, thanks -- I think that's one of the standard choices (oh so especially if racist, -phobic, separatist and/or supporter) is the alternative) and make absolutely no mistakes about it or with whom I'd rather be standing with.

Once upon a time, I thought that Troth membership made this a moot question, removing the need for a 'line in the sand to stand on one side of'. I wouldn't have been involved as a Heathen at at all were it not for the writings of people like Jordsvin, tamyris, scrwtape, dpaxson, you and the contributors to the online version of Our Troth.

And I still don't know how to answer that email.
***

This Yuletide, I decided that If I'm ever in the position to ratify commandments, the first shall be: Be Thou Not an Ass.

edit: typocheck

[weofodthignen]

But look at all the comments above yours. Look at Lorrie's own response.

Freya Aswynn has been marginal for a while--she just made herself all the more marginal by jumping on a bandwagon she had no call to jump on, and which the rest of us refuse to ride.

Heathen leaders--or prominent heathens--cannot assume we will all follow them blindly wherever they go, and they should realize ours is not a tradition of blind following of leaders at all. We're being forced to learn that; ancient heathenry went under because people did put loyalty to leaders above their principles--modern heathenry is subject to the same sucking forces, but the very balkanization that I deplore at least shows we don't see heathenry as monolithic.

Yes, Lorrie, this is deplorable, misguided, counterproductive, and says something bad about this person. I'm glad I had never previously read her blog. But look at the references in the comments to folkish leaders saying other racist and xenophobic things. Including one that if I interpreting correctly is from outside heathenry. People are clear-headedly identifying these as cases of bigotry that we must reject.

Let's not be distracted from doing heathenry--from serving our gods and being what we believe heathens should be. Let's not be whiplashed by these people.

Lorrie--I actually brought up your latest entry because I wondered if you'd solved your PDF delivery on payment problem. We need more writings by people who are not Freya Aswynn, Yngona, or Steve McNallen [toothy smile]

Both of you: you do know about A Heathen Thing and the heathenthing yahoolist, hmm? The Troth can't do it all, and we already have several people contributing to both.

Frith and Frechheit,
M

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Psst--were you intending to reply to a particular comment, here? This came in as a general comment to the whole durned post, but it worded as a reply to a particular thing.

--hokay, next reply will have Actual Meat.

-- Lorrie

Islamophobia-Freya Aswynn

[yewwitch.livejournal.com]

On the one hand we have the Great Asatru Divide, written by Aswynn only a couple of months ago, and mentioned on Pagannation. Now she's lifted this straight from a UK and dutch site, she's not just racist but nuts. How can you believe one word she say's when she contradicts herself so convincingly?
Her 'Nithing Song' is on a British Nationalist Party website and she was a member of a group called IONA affiliated to the BNP, yes she's a racist!

Re: Islamophobia-Freya Aswynn

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Well--it's a bit more complicated than that, which is generally the case when real people are involved.

-- Lorrie