Playing with Probiotics

[lwood]

So, for no damn good reason, I was suddenly compelled to start making yogurt this week.

Now two people who don't share much of a data pool in common are making probiotic noises: One of them has been clubbed over the head by them in a way I can only consider akin to acquiring a spirit ally^*, the other wants to repopulate their GI tract after a bout of food poisoning.

Oh! That's why!

Extended post detailing my adventures in monster probiota ranching to follow, this is just funny.

-- Lorrie

^* - Re: bacterial buddies. Yeah, that sounds ravingly fluffy. Look at it this way: lots of folk have animals, another wide swath have ancestors, I know a few with trees, I know another few with fungi. I could argue that it wouldn't suck for a brewer to deal with his yeast this way, but bacteria with whom you, as a human, are engaged in a mutual symbiotic relationship would be--dare I say--logical. Next, someone who's read A Wind in the Door will run up to me and explain how they have deep, meaningful relationships with their mitochondria. I will not be surprised at this. Also, someone else will find yet another reason to affix my face to a dartboard as I am the Living Symbol of All Things Fluffy; I will not be surprised at that, either.

PS: Yes. Oracle. It's a town in Arizona. I was there (it's not far from Tucson, right by the Biosphere, near the non-Interstate route between Tucson and Phoenix).

Comments

[faeryl.livejournal.com]

I love A Wind in the Door. Madeleine L'Engle has got to be one of the most "Pagan-y" Christian authors ever. *grin*

And yes, Probiotics rock.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

She is, if one recalls, a Charismatic Catholic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charismatic_Renewal), which would explain things.

-- Lorrie

[bodhibird.livejournal.com]

I thought she was an Episcopalian--she has a longstanding relationship with the Cathedral of St. John the Wacko the Divine in New York.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Bother, really?

Still, good writer and reasonably spiritually aware.

-- Lorrie

[ravan.livejournal.com]

Bacteria aren't familiars, they're worker bees.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Well, right. You wouldn't talk to just one bacterium; you would instead chat up the spirit behind all of them, in that hive-mind way--as one would address a queen bee.

-- Lorrie

[wednesday]

So that's what Nick Cage did wrong.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

It's not what you think is important that divides the Quick from the Fluff.

It's that you think. Critically, and with an eye to consequence.

-- Lorrie

[illuviel.livejournal.com]

Yes. Which is also why I'm to work with bees (both capitalized and Un-) in part in order to learn how to work a colony. (and/though bees are important for other reasons as well, especially with the Hive Collapse epidemic ... and there are underlying similarities in different staging areas of 'bug work' -- 'all bugs are bad!' is an unhealthy, unnatural, un-sustainable relationship to have, and ultimately a complete disservice to this species's place in the web of existence.)

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Agreed all 'round...

-- Lorrie

[arc-stormcrow.livejournal.com]

Spirit fungi? ::laughs:: Oh, yeah, that'd go over great at a gathering.

"My totem's a wolf! What's yours?"
"Portabella."

Hells, I'd say that just to see the reaction. ;)

[ivy]

I know someone who does have such an affinity. (Fungi in general, not Portabella in particular.) And I still take him seriously.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Yo, likewise. I'fact, I know someone whose every single ally is a plant or fungus--and is serious and competent.

More things in heaven and earth and all that.

-- Lorrie

[ivy]

I wonder if it's the same guy, or if there are two of them. [grin] The one I'm thinking of used to be a social worker and is now doing permaculture.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

There are, I am sure, many more than two--and nope, you and I are not thinking of the same person. ;)

-- Lorrie

[illuviel.livejournal.com]

I don't think he and Lorrie overlap all that much, social circle wise, but I've learned a lot from our mutual friend's insights. He's managed to 'splain things in fungal ways that others have attempted explaining in human ones and suddenly ::satori::.

I'd be interested in conversing with Lorrie's friend, as well.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

S/he is a bit gunshy, I'm afraid, and currently dealing with a hard row to hoe--not terribly referrable just now, or I would.

Sorry...

-- Lorrie

[arc-stormcrow.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't doubt that - but there's plenty of people who wouldn't consider everything in the equation. Some of the folks I've had the misfortune of running into, they'd be in a tizzy over something like that. Might be amusing to set their worldview on its ear.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

*snork!*

Well, I admit, when I've heard of funghi in someone's collection of allies, it's usually an entheogen.

So more, "I run with the red man" and talking about Amanita muscaria than "portabello in the posse". ;)

-- Lorrie

[erynn999.livejournal.com]

Well, the Amanita muscaria is a pretty damned powerful fungus, wouldn't you say?

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Psilocybin is no slouch either, and rather less friendly to mammals.

-- Lorrie

[arc-stormcrow.livejournal.com]

Well, I haven't got any personal experience, but based on reputation, I'd say it's pretty tough. :)

[emberleo.livejournal.com]

More like "Amanita"

But yeah.

--Ember--

[illuviel.livejournal.com]

Thank you for another good reason to stay home and just do the Work as it is presented.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

To be fair to arc_stormcrow, I think he was aiming at a theoretical snark opportunity, not specifically at anyone.

Besides, man, portabella's a total wuss compared to sly morel and luxuriant truffle, friend of pigs.

-- Lorrie, member of dot_pagan_snark

[illuviel.livejournal.com]

::nods:: that came across as harsher than meant, specially folks who don't know I'm fairly cheerful in the reclusive curmudgeon sort of way.

But really, I feel better about living 'neath a metaphoric rock, ;> when I consider the Compare Shiny Merit Badges / Hunting Trophies portion of dealing with people in groups that I'm missing thereby. The 'whose is bigger' contests, they bore me.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

that came across as harsher than meant, specially folks who don't know I'm fairly cheerful in the reclusive curmudgeon sort of way.

*nodnod* I actually did figure as much, but was more making sure than anything...

-- Lorrie

[ivy]

To my eye, a nature-oriented spirituality (which I recognize not all Pagans have) requires learning about the natural world as it is, not just imposing one's preconceptions on it. The lack of science clue among a lot of nature-oriented pagans astonishes me. For all the lip service that's given to "we are all interconnected in the web of life", a lot of people don't actually seem to think much about what that means. They don't realize the essential role of the less cute and cuddly forms of life. Sure, few people are going to say "the noble mycelial mats, which aid nutrient cycling through the forests", but that doesn't mean that these are not important members of Team Gaia, sustaining our lives and the life of the planet too. (Also, they WAY outnumber us. So do bacteria. So do insects. Etc.) Snobbery about "well, BEARS are okay, but eeew, creepycrawlies, your spirit allies suck" seems to be merely a more diffuse form of anthropocentrism. If you're going to engage with nature animistically, that does mean all of it.

When one is working *with* the land, all contributing members become important. I have hardscrabble clay soil at my new home, and you bet I'm thankful to the soil bacteria, fungi, and worms helping me compost and turn it back into fertile ground. I am thankful to the daikon radishes that are breaking up the stony soil and decomposing into a bed I can replant next year. And I'm not going to give them any less honor, attention, offerings, or gratefulness than the oak, birch, and hawthorn trees we're planting to help us grow this into sacred land, or the falcons-in-residence who watch over it for us.

Of course the mode of interaction and work is going to change as you work with different kinds of beings. A cat is not an ant is not an archae is not a broccoli. But expecting them all to work on our terms is like going to Mongolia and getting pissy that not everyone speaks flawless English. Listen, pay attention, make a little effort to learn how they communicate. Duh. [grin]

(Okay, rant off... I just get annoyed by supposedly enlightened people with superior attitudes who are ragingly ignorant about science and nature, but are determined that they are the arbiters of cosmology.)

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Snobbery about "well, BEARS are okay, but eeew, creepycrawlies, your spirit allies suck" seems to be merely a more diffuse form of anthropocentrism.

Which would be Yet Another Problem I Have with Harner--he's got a Thing about snakes and manyleggeds that gets right up my nose!

If you're going to engage with nature animistically, that does mean all of it.

Preach it!

I have hardscrabble clay soil at my new home, and you bet I'm thankful to the soil bacteria, fungi, and worms helping me compost and turn it back into fertile ground.

I was not either kidding about a cheer for the yeast in the bread and beer, although Extant Lore™ allows as how these may properly be under the jurisdiction of the house wight.

Of course the mode of interaction and work is going to change as you work with different kinds of beings.

*taps her nose* dingdingding

Listen, pay attention, make a little effort to learn how they communicate. Duh. [grin]

Ayup.

I just get annoyed by supposedly enlightened people with superior attitudes who are ragingly ignorant about science and nature, but are determined that they are the arbiters of cosmology.

When I find myself in danger of getting too big for my britches, I remind myself that it's less "saving the world" and more "I've got a plunger".

-- Lorrie

[ivy]

Which would be Yet Another Problem I Have with Harner--he's got a Thing about snakes and manyleggeds that gets right up my nose!

I think to some extent it's a "thus far, and no further" thing -- the more different something is from humans, the more some people are going to fear/dismiss/objectify/demonize it. It's projection again; we need some symbol for Other, some symbol for Bad, some symbol for Doom, so we pick the things that look most alien to us and freak out over those. (I will admit that I have to fight this myself, but I try to be aware of it. For example, the Romanesco freaks me right out; it looks like if you eat one, you turn into that iterative pattern. [grin] Obviously irrational, obviously projection, I recognize that and let it pass through me. It's not the Romanesco's fault.)

I was not either kidding about a cheer for the yeast in the bread and beer, although Extant Lore™ allows as how these may properly be under the jurisdiction of the house wight.

My live-in partner and I were just discussing such things. In our house, he's the cook, I'm the gardener. Until we lived here, organic local produce was the best we could do -- he hadn't experienced things grown mindfully and with love, right there. He's astonished at the difference it makes. Not to be a big hippie, but... it really does matter when you have a relationship rather than seeing everything as a commodity.

When I find myself in danger of getting too big for my britches, I remind myself that it's less "saving the world" and more "I've got a plunger".

[laughs] I try to self-check for egotism like that too, but I also use "saving the world" and "saving the Internet" and such as slang terms for "trying to do some good here for everyone". Thus, in the extremely unlikely event that I ever do really save the world, or the Internet, I'll be plumb out of things to say. [giggling]

[lwood.livejournal.com]

It's projection again; we need some symbol for Other, some symbol for Bad, some symbol for Doom, so we pick the things that look most alien to us and freak out over those.

And, from an evolutionary standpoint, this is not bad, wrong, or stupid. It's smart not to play with snakes, spiders, and bears, because there's a significant risk it might go really badly really quickly.

This is why certain kinds of people who deliberately do go out and do that tend to (differs by culture) get a certain amount of respect and fear for doing so.

I will admit that I have to fight this myself, but I try to be aware of it. For example, the Romanesco freaks me right out; it looks like if you eat one, you turn into that iterative pattern. [grin] Obviously irrational, obviously projection, I recognize that and let it pass through me. It's not the Romanesco's fault.

I am fond of the idea of fractal broccoli; a vendor at the farmers' market threw one in my bag as a freebie once. They're gorgeous and I can trace the spirals with my eye foreverandever.

It's almost too pretty to sit down and eat. However, I make sure to indulge in sacred cow-tipping on a regular basis, so I did, eventually, run it through the microwave. Too much like cauliflower for my taste...

it really does matter when you have a relationship rather than seeing everything as a commodity.

Ayup.

As my FIERCE chili peppers will eventually show. ;)

I also use "saving the world" and "saving the Internet" and such as slang terms for "trying to do some good here for everyone".

*nodnod* Well, that's the episodic sense of Saving the World, right? There's always next week/season, where there's another toilet to plunge...

I'll be plumb out of things to say.

Don't worry, someone will surely lead you on to something else...

-- Lorrie

[illuviel.livejournal.com]

Snobbery about "well, BEARS are okay, but eeew, creepycrawlies, your spirit allies suck" seems to be merely a more diffuse form of anthropocentrism. If you're going to engage with nature animistically, that does mean all of it.

Amen, sister. :>

I wrote something similar in my initial response, and could have just dittoed points of yours.

I'm still having great difficulty keying into the ecology of my current area ... in great part because my internal system is so out of whack I'm not a healthy ecosystem with which to interact ... and as these things are often microcosm/macrocosm mirrors of each other, this current area's fairly me inhospitable. Ah, the Catch-22, I am mightily aware. Hopefully the inside-out, mindfully, approach that I've been introduced to will be beneficial.

(Okay, rant off... I just get annoyed by supposedly enlightened people with superior attitudes who are ragingly ignorant about science and nature, but are determined that they are the arbiters of cosmology.)

Indeed. (This isn't the time or space for my rant following attending a lecture by a Well Known Pagan whose group name seemed to indicate ze'd a better grasp of some of these concepts, but proved to definitely not to.)

[wolfs-daugher.livejournal.com]

although, it turns out that no one else got sick, so I'm thinkin' nasty as hell viral attack rather than food poisoning.

I waited until I had the data points before I started treating for the virus path, and I am slowly getting better.

Sparrow

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Yay, better!

-- Lorrie

The fluffnutter in question

[illuviel.livejournal.com]

I have no idea how I missed this the first time 'round, but was trekking back through your archives for a fiber arts related post and found this.

Hi, I'm the raving fluffnutter in question. ;>

Recent healing and trancework introduced me to much I've got to implement in coming months, including working with colonies -- specifically symbiotic bacterial colonies and bees. I'm still working on pulling together a coherent trip report (yes, still! -- Lorrie, I don't know DLP's deadline for what you pinged me for, and/but I'm not sure how to pull this info together coherently. What do people want to know and what format's best?)

~*~

And, er, I'm also, multi-taskedly, working mitochondria the long way 'round by first looking into matrilineage and working deeper as I can. Much of what ails me is theorized to be a mitochondrial disorder, and autoimmune weirdnesses run in my mothers' line. Am I to the point where I can, L'Engle wise, hold meaningful discourse with 'em? No. (But thanks for the reminder of the series. My head pulled together a lot of Dune thought imagery/patterns this time through, as the icon reflects.)

But I do want to read more of this man's work on minerals and the genetic code ... one of the key trace minerals he's found [yttrium] is a byproduct of bifidobacter longum. I wonder what other symbiotes are necessary for the proper care and feeding of a bipedal sentient and plan on finding out.

Many of my teachers have been of not-iconically-studly-or-impressive types, (to the point where I was highly surprised that a particular furry quadriped was actually talkin' to me, and I'm not even a big, hairy gay guy. ;>), so my inability to find this latest instructor not listed in a Ted Andrews book surprises me not.

I see this latest step as an extension of being mindful and aware, a call to work consciously with more of my relations, and deeper in the sustainability work I'm Sposed to be doing. Fluff or not, here I sit, up to my elbows in dishes or worm compost box or garden soil as health permits.

~*~

I also, as an extension of this thoughtline wonder how many people are working with Apple, or Flax, or Wheat, or Barley, the humble Leek -- especially people to whom those plants are sacred to/symbolic of gods and goddesses to whom they're allied. If there aren't any, why not? (And what about Bee, oh quaffers of mead?)

Re: The fluffnutter in question

[lwood.livejournal.com]

I'm still working on pulling together a coherent trip report (yes, still! -- Lorrie, I don't know DLP's deadline for what you pinged me for, and/but I'm not sure how to pull this info together coherently. What do people want to know and what format's best?)

Begin at the beginning. Do as few flashbacks as are strictly necessary. Write to the end, with as few sidebars as possible. Then stop.

Write to a audience of the reasonably clueful--namely dpaxson and I, and we'll lift out what's fit to print. You are primarily writing for our records of cool people doing cool shit, and only secondarily for publication.

Does that help?

But thanks for the reminder of the series.

Just doing my job... ;)

My head pulled together a lot of Dune thought imagery/patterns this time through, as the icon reflects.

Heh--a mythos with strong resonance for me as well.

I wonder what other symbiotes are necessary for the proper care and feeding of a bipedal sentient and plan on finding out.

Go, you!

(to the point where I was highly surprised that a particular furry quadriped was actually talkin' to me, and I'm not even a big, hairy gay guy. ;>)

Bear is Very Big.

I see this latest step as an extension of being mindful and aware, a call to work consciously with more of my relations, and deeper in the sustainability work I'm Sposed to be doing. Fluff or not, here I sit, up to my elbows in dishes or worm compost box or garden soil as health permits.

Hear here!

I also, as an extension of this thoughtline wonder how many people are working with Apple, or Flax, or Wheat, or Barley, the humble Leek -- especially people to whom those plants are sacred to/symbolic of gods and goddesses to whom they're allied. If there aren't any, why not? (And what about Bee, oh quaffers of mead?)

Anthropocentrism--it can be cured...

-- Lorrie (me, I like redwoods...)