[teal-party] Five Items: Thermodynamics, Something Gruevy, and More!

[lwood]

My Short Environmental Thought of the Day:

During my brief stint at university, I took an Environmental Studies course. We went to some truly fascinating places, like a nuclear power plant, one of Cleveland's now-former steel mills, and a salt marsh that had no business being where it was--but this isn't about that.

This is about the first day of that class, when the professor went up to the chalkboard and--remember, engineering school--took the first two laws of thermodynamics and interpreted them environmentally, thus:

Conservation of Energy: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

Of course, as anyone with even a passing interest in relativity knows, this law applies to matter also. The gist of this law, however, as it applies to Environmental Studies, is this: There Is No Away. Everything has to go somewhere.

The entropy of the world tends towards a maximum.

Simply, any activity generates waste--heat, at the very least. Environmentally speaking, one also tends to have byproducts. See Rule One: what are you going to do with that?

The other theme he liked to expound upon throughout the course was that of the complex system. The more complex a system--any system--the less predictable the response to a given stimulus.

I'll never forget that class, and not just because we got to tour the nuke plant.

---

Something Gruevy

Meanwhile, my old friend gruevy has also been sinking deep thought into global warming. I tend to agree with him: systemic societal changes are going to be key to this whole thing. The suburban, single-driver-vehicle lifestyle that we currently enjoy may well be something we have to give up. Also, he touches on the current favorite anti-global-warming horse: "The sun is warmer, therefore we didn't screw this pooch!" Here is his post.

---

California's Storms: Made in China

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/03/06/BAGCQOG69O1.DTL&type=printable

Basically, storms along the North American coast of the Pacific Ocean are getting worse (as in more violent), and will continue to do so, due to particulate matter being released into the air by the growing Asian industrial base.

By the way, remember all those old pictures of Chinese riding bicycles through their cities? Not any more. They're all getting cars.

---

Green(ish) Gasoline

Among the tree-huggy things to land in my in-box is a newsletter from the Sierra Club. I pay them, they get political on my behalf, they point out where I should send the occasional e-mail, and it all goes around.

Anyway, a recent newsletter pointed out that not all gasoline companies are equally evil, here's where you can see their article:

http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/pickyourpoison/

See there for all the details, but here's the results:

Bottom of the Barrel

• ExxonMobil


• ConocoPhillips

Middle of the Barrel

• Royal Dutch Shell


• Chevron


• Valero Energy Corporation


• Citgo

Note: Citgo is owned by the Venezulean Government, whose leader has been, shall we say, quite cheeky about the President of the US. Whether you think that's a reason to avoid, or actively court, his gasoline is up to you.

Top of the Barrel

• BP


• Sunoco

While I don't know of any Sunoco stations in places of interest to much of my friends' list, it may interest you to know that BP owns ARCO--when you pull in for your horchata, amigo, your gasoline purchase sucks summat less than the fat cat who went to the Chevron instead.

Find an ARCO near you with their station locator.

---

The Greenest Car: Not a Hybrid?

Another Sierra Club E-Mail clipping:

http://sierraclub.typepad.com/greenlife/2007/02/clean_green_mac.html

They are actually quoting the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy, originators of the study. Their full results are at:

http://www.greenercars.com/12green.html

But here's the quicky:

1. Honda Civic GX


2. Toyota Prius


3. Honda Civic Hybrid


4. Nissan Altima Hybrid


5. Toyota Yaris


6. Toyota Corolla


7. Toyota Camry Hybrid


8. Honda Fit


9. Kia Rio / Rio 5


10. Hyundai Accent


11. Hyundai Elantra


12. Honda Civic

That top contender isn't a hybrid, it runs on Compressed Natural Gas.

---

There is no "away". So where are you going to put that? It may not wind up where you expect.

Time to leave work, flit across the Bay, and wish I could sing--until then, y'all, go well!

-- Lorrie

Comments

[erynn999.livejournal.com]

I've been getting my gas at ARCO for years now, in part because they're way cheaper than anybody else, but also BP is, I believe, North Sea rather than middle eastern oil, thus not into the whole "war for oil" loop at the moment. I'll got peek at the article. Thanks.

[trogula.livejournal.com]

Actually, unless things have changed since Gulf War I, BP is wholly owned by the Kuwait Royal Family.

I haven't done any looking into this since that time - this may have changed.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

According to bp's Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Petroleum), it's English as the top--and the listed executive names, at least, were as English as it gets.

Of the several large oil companies, though, they're the only ones making solid environmental strides. While, as usual, there are the usual cries of "Greenwashing!", they don't seem to be nearly as loud in bp's case as they are in, say, Wal-Mart's. Nobody believes Wal-Mart.

-- Lorrie

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Ah, here's better data--you were correct, in part: the government of Kuwait bought up about 1/5 of bp, which alarmed Her Majesty's Government. A recommendation was made that the Kuwaiti holdings drop to no more than 9.9%--summary here:

http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/rep_pub/reports/1988/231kuwaitbp.htm

NB this is from 1988, but a later complaint (http://www.flyingfish.org.uk/articles/pinochet/93-09-24ft.htm) about tax revenue in this whole affair from 1993 refers to their holdings as having dropped to 9.7%, and other reports confirm this.

So, yeah, they did have a bigger stake than anyone else, but never all of it, and when it was alarmingly large, it was lopped in half.

-- Lorrie

[erynn999.livejournal.com]

I stand corrected, but apparently not by a huge percentage.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Granted that this is from 2005, but it links to DoE sites for more relevant data.

Short form, however, is that yes, bp does import from the Middle East:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/saudigas.asp

-- Lorrie

[feonixrift.livejournal.com]

There is a public CNG station near the WholeFoods here, run by the bus companies.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Cool!

-- Lorrie

[walkyrja.livejournal.com]

99% of the time we get gas, it's at the Sunoco down the street. The other 1% happens when we're not at home but travelling...

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Hoorah!

-- Lorrie

[wolfs-daugher.livejournal.com]

Arco always made Fidella make funny noises and reduced miles per gallon, so I didn't use it. I'm glad to know that Chevron is at least middlin' decent.

Sparrow

[lwood.livejournal.com]

*nod* talek, a former boyfriend, declared he got far better mileage from Chevron than any other gasoline.

-- Lorrie

[wolfs-daugher.livejournal.com]

Ayup. Like P&G they're enviormental practices haven't always been the best, but the quality of the product they put out somewhat mitigates that. With gasoline, for me, it's a balancing act between best overall enviormentally and best for my car and my pocketbook. Although with gas prices right now, BART is just plain less expensive.

I avoided using P&G for decades, I felt pretty strongly about thier use of live animals for cosmetic testing purposes. I was really happy when they aquired Iams, and as part of the deal, ceased testing on animals!

Sparrow

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Although with gas prices right now, BART is just plain less expensive.

I hear that--at $3/gal, reckoning that a minivan gets maybe 20 mpg highway, a round trip to Berkeley is, what, $9 for you?

Hooray, BART!

-- Lorrie

[wolfs-daugher.livejournal.com]

Closer to $8.00. But add in wear and tear on the vehicle, and on me as the driver. At least on BART I can knit, or read or sleep. So it makes the hour or two that I spend on the train more useful than the half hour behind the wheel.

Southbay is much more of a pain, that takes two and a half hours! But *shrugs* it's coming down to no choice at all. I can either do that or not go.

Sparrow

[lwood.livejournal.com]

So it makes the hour or two that I spend on the train more useful than the half hour behind the wheel.

I keep trying to explain this as part of the actual good points of public transit, but it's hard to get traction.

That Frigga shawl wouldn't be nearly as far along without the Transbay Bus. ;)

Southbay is much more of a pain, that takes two and a half hours!

I know! There is no reasonable way to get from the East Bay to the South Bay for a daily commute. Thus, there is no feasable alternative for countgeiger's commute. It sucks, and means that, no matter what I do, I can't get a reasonable carbon footprint for our household: 400 miles each week in a private vehicle is still 400 miles per week in a private vehicle...

-- Lorrie

[wolfs-daugher.livejournal.com]

*nods* we have a similar problem, with RCDwarf's commute to north Concord. It's only about 25 miles to his work, but it takes over two hours on Public Transit, and the bus he would have to use doesn't run early enough to get him there by 7:00 in the morning.

So he's doing 250/300 miles a week and no getting around it.

It's frustrating

Sparrow

[lwood.livejournal.com]

So he's doing 250/300 miles a week and no getting around it.

It's frustrating

*nod* As gruevy points out, one answer is to jack the gas prices up to something truly ridiculous, then use the revenue to actually get decent public transit...

-- Lorrie

[wolfs-daugher.livejournal.com]

owowow. That would be a wonderful long term answer, but who could survive the process?

Sparrow

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Don't drop the frog into a pot of boiling water--he'll just leap out.

Drop the frog in room-temperature water, and heat it slowly--he'll sit in there until he's soup.

---

Phase the changes in in stages. A little more service, a little more gas tax, a toll gate to enter the worst areas like SF's Financial District or the last few blocks of Telegraph Ave--or simply bar these from private vehicle access altogether.

It almost certainly won't happen this way, given the current political climate, but thought experiements are pleasant ways to pass a day.

-- Lorrie

[wolfs-daugher.livejournal.com]

for people like me, that would mean reduced access to our lives.

If things get too expensive I would just have to stop going there. And I am not so weird that I am the only person who would be forced to make that choice. There comes a point where people are pushed into survival mode, and when you go there the optional stuff, like living instead of surviving, goes away.

Sparrow

[lwood.livejournal.com]

I know--which is why "more expensive gas" would have to come with some kind of alternative, like better public transit: more penetration, more frequent service, etc.

I don't have any magic bullets. Hell, I don't have any regular ones. I'm just trying to clean up my own shit and share some thoughts.

-- Lorrie

[gruevy.livejournal.com]

More on this: London was apparently beginning its transit crisis in 1863, when they started the Underground. Thats an awfully long time to change public attitudes.

As far as the huge price of gasoline: I am under the impression, though I have no easily available source, but monstrous gasoline taxes have been central to UK energy policy for years. The entire UK is smaller than California, and contains nearly 60 million people: more than 25% more dense than Cali, if I understand my stats correctly.

Thus, rather than driven by green agenda, instead, they're driven by simple economics of supply. 60 million people in cars would use a lot more land for highways, more fuel and fuel processing infrastructure. To preserve being able to feed themselves, in a considerably less fertile country, they had to discourage personal commuting vehicles.

But Cali and Canada will be both be driven there soon enough. Soon crude prices will force it. I for one applaud this.

I just wish we could get past the electrical utilities penchant for Coal. Thats a big part of the carbon debt. I'm a supporter of nuclear power, but that likely puts me at odds with the teals.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

But Cali and Canada will be both be driven there soon enough. Soon crude prices will force it. I for one applaud this.

Ayuh. I see the same writing on the same wall that you do: there will need to be a significant reduction in personal automobile use. This is going to profoundly affect the US/Canadian lifestyle, but suburbs are just not environmentally feasable.

The other big change, or so I have been convinced since 1990 or so, will be less breeding.

I'm a supporter of nuclear power, but that likely puts me at odds with the teals.

Well, see, fission power might be a useful short-to-medium term crutch: while it's true you're not looking at tons of soot, there's still that niggly disposal thing, the whole "oops you still can't live in a big chunk of the Ukraine" thing, and the sideline issue of water that's too warm and too pure to go back into the local waterway--although that's a more dealable issue than the first two.

The long-term nuclear solution would, of course, be fusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power)--which, as you and I know as scientifically interested persons, has no significant impact on global warming, has a far smaller chance for catastrphic failure, little significant waste, etc etc. Now they just need reactors that put out...which do not yet exist.

But as I pointed out to dpaxson the other day, our nearest stable fusion reactor has been online for 4.57 billion years or so, and is scheduled to remain online for another 5-6 billion years. We know it's doable; now it's just a matter of scale.

That, alas, it just a pipe dream from my desk at the Mad Scientists' Home. What I can do, however, is take the bus, bring my own bags to the farmer's market, spread words, and hope.

-- Lorrie

[gruevy.livejournal.com]

... but I'm not ... old ... am I?

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Nono!

We've just known each other awhile, that's all I meant.

-- L

[dasubergeek.livejournal.com]

This is exactly why I take the train -- it takes longer, I have to make a really annoying transfer at Onion Station, and it costs more -- but I get to work, and back home, with scads more SAN points than when I have to drive.

Yes, that's right. I live in greater LA (OK, I live in the O.C., mock me now) and I take public transport to work.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

but I get to work, and back home, with scads more SAN points than when I have to drive.

Exactly! Only in my case, I also get more time to knit.

I take public transport to work.

It's only feasable in the Bay Area if you're not trying to go from the East Bay (either Near East 510 or Middle East 925) to the South Bay. There simply is no workable route that way. East Bay to Oakland works, up and down the Peninsula works, South Bay to SF works, but East to South? No chance--so countgeiger has to drive. 8-(

-- Lorrie

Request

[trogula.livejournal.com]

Could you add me to the Teal Party email list? You've got the email addey.

Re: Request

[lwood.livejournal.com]

We don't have one. Er. I've been blatting things, at random, to any of the following lists:

hrafnar
vanic-conversation
amuh-f
blb-chat

I am torn between making a teal-party list (or, heck, a website), which would definitely ensure that I would only send to interested people, or continuing to send to some/all of the above, as that would ensure the widest possible coverage, but might cause some backlash.

The only feedback I've gotten about teal posts to the other lists, you see, was blackfyr poitning out that I'd typoed a URL. Although I suppose that proves he was reading them...

-- Lorrie

[bojojohn.livejournal.com]

Oooo then i feel as if I'm contributing!

I drive a 2004 Toyota Prius and get gas at the local BP station!

Victorria

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Hooray!

Hey, it's all the same planet--while a lot of teal party blather that I spew will necessarily be SF Bay Area-centric, some other things like "hey, flourescent light bulbs!" are more widely applicable.

-- Lorrie

[lwood.livejournal.com]

...or I could finish my thought.

Anyway, because I know my LJ has folks from all over, I am glad you're getting benefit from them too. 8-)

-- Lorrie

[dasubergeek.livejournal.com]

I drive a 2007 Honda Civic hybrid but get gas at whichever gas station allows me to pull out into traffic the way I need to be going (the nearest gas stations, you see, are four to an intersection). I believe it's a 76, a Chevron, a Mobil and a Citgo, but I could be wrong about one or more of those. I do fill up down here as often as possible -- there's a price differential of some 20-30 cents per gallon as soon as you cross into Los Angeles County.

It amuses me that the ones on the east side of State College Blvd. are more expensive than those on the west side -- because as you leave Angel Stadium, the ones on the east side of the street are easier to get to as you head for the various freeways.

[leanne-opaskar.livejournal.com]

I refuse to give BP my money given the horrible working conditions at the plant in Texas that led to its explosion and the death of 15 people. Particularly since the potential problem had cropped up in the plant before and was not fixed.

Isn't the price of oil high enough that they can afford safe working conditions for their employees?

I give my money to Shell. There is no Sunoco near me.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Yeah--I'm not saying any of the guys here are good--we're really looking at a "lesser of several evils" scenario. Moreover, while the top-down message might be tolerable, there's always plenty of room--and more room the bigger a corporation gets--for managerial asshattery.

As far as I know, Sunoco doesn't do a lot of business in the big Bay Area cities, so we're both out of luck there.

-- Lorrie

[leanne-opaskar.livejournal.com]

Oh ... I noticed somewhere (can't find it now, darn it) that there is a Teal Party mailing list? If it's not locals-only, can I join? Environmentalism is a Big Deal for me.

[lwood.livejournal.com]

By definition, it wouldn't be locals-only--I'm still debating about distribution venues, though!

-- Lorrie

[wolfs-daugher.livejournal.com]

*laughs* L~, I think you'd better admit defeat and make the frelling list!

*giggles*
Sparrow

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Mneh. That would necessarily limit redistribution.

I'll think about it; who knows what I'll do?

-- Lorrie

[emberleo.livejournal.com]

There is no "away".

HA! Mom and I were RIGHT!

--Ember--

[lwood.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but actively encouragement of entropy by, say, having a House O' Habitrails is probably not to be encouraged, owing to other unfortunate consequences of that lifestyle choice. ;)

-- Lorrie

Teal Party PR?

[dpaxson.livejournal.com]

See post on my account.