And Now... the Daughters of Frya
Jul. 21st, 2006 11:26 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lwoodAnd Now, the Daughters of Frya (nope, not a typo):
Edit: Who were a hoax. The troll admits it (see comments), and while I suppose it's possible that someone random could have picked up on it and made something good of it, the site's gone also. I've left the rest of this post as-is, it's just behind a cut.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/frya/
Hey,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
walkyrja, did you miss the Book of Oera Linda when putting your Freyjabok together? I mean, the book says its first bits were written in 2194 BCE, when Atland (Atlantis) went blub... and never mind that the paper of the manuscript appears to be from around 1850.
For those of you who'd rather not be disturbed by wading through bad website design (light green on dark green! All text is centered! I smack your style sheet with a dead haddock!) and prose that, verily, makes the Book of Mormon look well-written (their, ah, first appearances are somewhat contemporary), a brief summary for yourwincing reading pleasure.
Would you like to be a member of this order? They have three simple rules:
Those of you who are familiar with, um, more mainstream depictions of Freyja can rejoin me after scratching your heads and a chorus of, "wait... what?"
The manuscript is rather riddled with anachronisms and, to my mind, a bit of crypto-Christianity. The group picture on the website, according to one source, was nicked from a shot of a tennis team. The group may have been a joke, or they may be sincere--reply hazy, ask again later. Except for that matrilineal feminism, it's easy to see how the OLB became a darling of nationalist, and *cough* national socialist movements: most peoples on earth are descended from Frya's sisters, and her sisters were bad, bad, naughty people. Frya's descendants are, of course, nice and pretty and wonderful, ancestors of probably, the Frisians (the manuscript's origins and original language are definitely Frisian)--I admit my eyes began to cross here and I had to stop. The Magyars in particular are very bad, bad, naughty people, which would also tie in with an 1850 authorship date, as Hungary would have just broken away from Austria in 1848.
From my perspective, a certain crypto-Christianity abounds. Another quote, this one describing Wr-alda, father of Frya:
But at least there's a bit in there about respecting the Earth (here personalised as Irtha)--we could always use more of that, goodness knows.
They'd like to swap links with the Hrafnar site--I am disinclined to acquiesce to their request. If someone's decided to make a go of being a Daughter of Frya because reading the Oera Linda Book, more power to them, as they have a few good ideas, but even I--not on the lunatic fringe of heathenry but I can see it from here--would have a hard time accepting what I would classify as an essential monotheism as a Germanic reconstructionist faith.
I Am Trying To Be Nice, Here: one man's religion remains another man's belly laugh, and I don't know that we won't be a laughingstock in one hundred fifty years--but, er, wow. This one's rather large to swallow. That this, according to the all-knowing hivemind of Wikipedia, was a probable influence on Blavatsky, and through her, Spiritualism, really doesn't help.
-- Lorrie
Edit: Who were a hoax. The troll admits it (see comments), and while I suppose it's possible that someone random could have picked up on it and made something good of it, the site's gone also. I've left the rest of this post as-is, it's just behind a cut.
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/frya/
Hey,
walkyrja, did you miss the Book of Oera Linda when putting your Freyjabok together? I mean, the book says its first bits were written in 2194 BCE, when Atland (Atlantis) went blub... and never mind that the paper of the manuscript appears to be from around 1850.For those of you who'd rather not be disturbed by wading through bad website design (light green on dark green! All text is centered! I smack your style sheet with a dead haddock!) and prose that, verily, makes the Book of Mormon look well-written (their, ah, first appearances are somewhat contemporary), a brief summary for your
Would you like to be a member of this order? They have three simple rules:
1. Abstain from all intoxicants and sexual activity of any kind
2. At all times wear the short white tunic, or Tohnekka, as a symbol of purity
3. Bend their knees in devotion to Wr-alda for six hours each day
Those of you who are familiar with, um, more mainstream depictions of Freyja can rejoin me after scratching your heads and a chorus of, "wait... what?"
The manuscript is rather riddled with anachronisms and, to my mind, a bit of crypto-Christianity. The group picture on the website, according to one source, was nicked from a shot of a tennis team. The group may have been a joke, or they may be sincere--reply hazy, ask again later. Except for that matrilineal feminism, it's easy to see how the OLB became a darling of nationalist, and *cough* national socialist movements: most peoples on earth are descended from Frya's sisters, and her sisters were bad, bad, naughty people. Frya's descendants are, of course, nice and pretty and wonderful, ancestors of probably, the Frisians (the manuscript's origins and original language are definitely Frisian)--I admit my eyes began to cross here and I had to stop. The Magyars in particular are very bad, bad, naughty people, which would also tie in with an 1850 authorship date, as Hungary would have just broken away from Austria in 1848.
From my perspective, a certain crypto-Christianity abounds. Another quote, this one describing Wr-alda, father of Frya:
1. Hail to all the well-intentioned Children of Frya!
2. Through you Irtha shall become holy.
3. Learn and announce to the people that Wr-alda is the ancient of ancients, for he created all things.
4. Wr-alda is all in all, for he is eternal and everlasting.
5. Wr-alda is everywhere but invisible, and therefore is called a spirit. All that we can see of him are the created beings who come to life through him and go again, because from Wr-alda all things proceed and return to him.
6. Wr-alda is the beginning and the end.
7. Wr-alda is the only mighty being, because from him all strength comes, and returns to him. Therefore he alone is the creator, and nothing exists without him.
8. Wr-alda established eternal principles, upon which the laws of creation were founded, and no good laws could stand on any other foundation.
9. But although everything is derived from Wr-alda, the wickedness of men does not come from him. Wickedness comes from heaviness, carelessness, and stupidity; therefore they may well be injurious to men, but never to Wr-alda.
10. Wr-alda is wisdom, and the laws that he has made are the books from which we learn, nor is any wisdom to be found or gathered but in them.
11. Men may see a great deal, but Wr-alda sees everything. Men can learn a great deal, but Wr-alda knows everything. Men can discover much, but to Wr-alda everything is open. Mankind are male and female, but Wr-alda created both. Mankind love and hate, but Wr-alda alone is just. Therefore Wr-alda is good, and there is no good without him.
12. In the progress of time all creation alters and changes, but goodness alone is unalterable; and since Wr-alda is good, he cannot change. As he endures, he alone exists; everything else is show.
But at least there's a bit in there about respecting the Earth (here personalised as Irtha)--we could always use more of that, goodness knows.
They'd like to swap links with the Hrafnar site--I am disinclined to acquiesce to their request. If someone's decided to make a go of being a Daughter of Frya because reading the Oera Linda Book, more power to them, as they have a few good ideas, but even I--not on the lunatic fringe of heathenry but I can see it from here--would have a hard time accepting what I would classify as an essential monotheism as a Germanic reconstructionist faith.
I Am Trying To Be Nice, Here: one man's religion remains another man's belly laugh, and I don't know that we won't be a laughingstock in one hundred fifty years--but, er, wow. This one's rather large to swallow. That this, according to the all-knowing hivemind of Wikipedia, was a probable influence on Blavatsky, and through her, Spiritualism, really doesn't help.
-- Lorrie
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 07:35 pm (UTC)whether it's from mental pain or laughing too hard remains to be seen...
no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 10:21 pm (UTC)Really. I might, y'know, be snarkier verbally. 8-P
-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 11:32 pm (UTC)That just hurt my brain in many ways. It's been that kind of day. (my nice academic Christian library today got in something else to make my brain break--the first Left Behind book. I was debating between accessioning it and making it into a target for a flamethrower.)
no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 08:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 10:22 pm (UTC)-- Lorrie
6 hours of kneeling?! WTF?!
Date: 2006-07-21 10:51 pm (UTC)Not just no, but HELL no. Not even for the Unholy Trinity of J-Rock Sex-on-Wheels* would I spend 6 hours on my knees, let alone a deity. [clutches bottle of Mobic for protection] Especially in one of those outfits. My body wasn't made for a dress like that!
Apparently, though, there are some who would. There was some DoF who argued her point with a Heathen from Asatru Lore about how she was right and he wasn't for almost a week.
Semper Slug,
~ Gari
* That would be Gackt as the Father, Miyavi as the Son, and introducing Hyde as the Holy Spirit.
Re: 6 hours of kneeling?! WTF?!
Date: 2006-07-21 10:57 pm (UTC)Did said DoF have any better claim to veracity than "Oera Linda says it, I believe it, and that settles it?" 'cos, like, we polytheists have a bigger stack of paper and lots of shiny things on our side, whereas DoF does not seem to have much besides their--again, I am trying to be charitable--historically dubious document.
They're tasting kinda like heathen Mormons to me, and I don't know that I like it.
-- Lorrie
Re: 6 hours of kneeling?! WTF?!
Date: 2006-07-21 11:08 pm (UTC)~ Gari
Re: 6 hours of kneeling?! WTF?!
Date: 2006-07-21 11:49 pm (UTC)-- Lorrie
Re: 6 hours of kneeling?! WTF?!
Date: 2006-07-21 11:48 pm (UTC)Oh! Right, that inspired me:
...wow, I have way too many free userpic spaces--Gari, please feel free to adopt-a-slug. 8-)
no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 08:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 10:22 pm (UTC)-- L
no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 08:40 pm (UTC)Of course, this presents us with a dilemma - as a Freyrsman myself, how does one get down on one's knees for six hours each day, and remain sexually chaste? ;-P
no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 10:23 pm (UTC)-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2006-07-24 02:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-24 11:06 pm (UTC)-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 08:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 10:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 09:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-21 10:23 pm (UTC)-- L
no subject
Date: 2006-07-22 02:54 am (UTC)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oera_Linda
You might ask Gerd Groenewald for more information, but everything I've heard about the Oera Linda Book just screams "hoax", which seems to be the scholarly consensus. I do vaguely remember that it's cited in Raymond Buckland's books on Seax-Wica, but that's just going by memory here.
According to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daughters_of_Frya
there are several hoax Daughters of Frya Websites which aren't actually connected to the real DoF, which is a real organization based in Australia.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-22 05:05 pm (UTC)Duuh. . .
no subject
Date: 2006-07-23 09:17 pm (UTC)Oh, stars, yes. It's a very interesting artifact of its time--where "its time" is "the middle of the nineteenth century, back when the New Age was the New Æon". I'd be as charitable as "well-researched hoax", but no further.
That doesn't mean you can't start a religion from it, as you can start a religion from a used Big Mac wrapper if you've a mind to, and digging deeply enough into anything can generate insights. I'm going to be hard-pressed to say anything not a religion, if it's functioning in the ways that a spiritual system tends to for the people who find it significant. Them's those Interfaith Brand Tactyon Particles, you see.
But I can say--and this is only through use of maaaany many tactyon particles (DLP has a tactyon particle collector in her basement, it's how we survive local kerfluffles of all sizes)--that I would question this group's place in Germanic Reconstrucionist paganism.
I did read the Wikipedia articles on Oera Linda and DoF. ;) However, the DoF article isn't up to the usual Wikipedia standard (ooh, there went another tactyon particle), and I was giving the correspondent the benefit of every possible doubt.
I do vaguely remember that it's cited in Raymond Buckland's books on Seax-Wica, but that's just going by memory here.
...ooooh, that's an, uh, ringing endorsement, yup. ;)
DLP had, unsurprisingly, heard of the OLB, if not the DoF, although when hearing of the DoF's rules, she did a spit-take. *grin*
As to the "hoax sites", I did find some other URL's for the DoF, which linked back to the Angelfire site I was given in my contact e-mail. There's a couple assertions, unfortunately without citations, that the whole thing was one troll's idea--but on the other hand, there's also reference to one lone adherent campaigning on a forum, which may be the selfsame troll.
So: I'm certainly not going to link to them from Hrafnar's site, whether they exist or don't appears to be a bit up in the air, though mostly on the side of "don't". I'm just going to plug my ears, not answer the e-mail, and that will probably be the end of it.
-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2006-07-23 02:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-27 01:21 pm (UTC)I wonder how many offers to swap links have been made? Like the Wikipedia article, links add to the appearance of authenticity and probably do something for the DoF site's Google rating as well.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-27 05:02 pm (UTC)Right--I dug around in Google and found links where someone said, "Ha! They're a hoax and I proved it!" and similar, but not the one that said, "I did it, it's total rubbish, and yes I nicked that picture from the Thus-and-So Tennis Team".
The DoF website was taken down but has now reappeared, along with the Wikipedia article (currently tagged for deletion.)
Right--it had had more stuff in it when I first looked at it, including a drive-by edit that said "The Daughters of Frya is a hoax." (sic) Now there's a lot less stuff and, of course, the "delete me quick" tag.
When I originally posted that, there was a little more to go with--and frankly, I've seen stranger groups built on less, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt that they might be genuine, while not giving them the link they asked for on provable, verifiable grounds.
Opinion is divided as to whether there really is something icky about the way the hoaxer keeps using photos of school girls' sporting teams.
Honestly, my first speculation was that there was secretly a guy in charge of this whole mess, and that sex with him as a manifestation of Wr-alda didn't count against your abstinence rating--therefore the girls were real, and were faceless as a way of reinforcing their lack of individuality, for they were all one in service to Frya and Wr-alda.
There could be a lot of mileage in that, mostly as cheesy fantasy fodder.
The wilder flights of fancy are entertaining: my current favourite is the winter solstice gathering to be held in Norway - presumably in the tennis dresses?
Their love of Frya would keep them warm!
I wonder how many offers to swap links have been made? Like the Wikipedia article, links add to the appearance of authenticity and probably do something for the DoF site's Google rating as well.
Doubtless!
-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2006-07-28 08:26 am (UTC)Like you, people at TC tried to be tactful initially. I mean, the thing looked flakey from the start but nobody wanted to be too scathing if the poster had been sucked in and really believed it. Consequently, when she finally admitted it had been a hoax all along forum members didn't exactly take kindly to it.
The threads are still on the archive board, just yell if you want a link.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-28 04:37 pm (UTC)-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2006-07-29 01:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-29 06:25 pm (UTC)-- Lorrie
no subject
Date: 2006-08-04 05:54 pm (UTC)I've amended the intro of my original post to match. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
-- Lorrie
Oera Linda Book
Date: 2006-08-12 01:42 pm (UTC)after reading the original and reproducing it and making a word for word
translation. It contains so many detail on the origine of words, especilly
dutch and english words, that a hoax is very unlikely. Unfortunately not
everyone speaks dutch. Therefore I have also made a literal english
translation. Hardly anybody has ever read the original because it has not
been published untill very recently. But only in a very small copy. And
even the original is hard to read simply becaus eit is writen with a
feather and ink. And because nobody has done serious study, exept Ottema
and Overwijn, everyone believes the OLB to be a hoax, forgetting that at
the time it was found it mostly posed a threat to the monopoly-position
of the church and the bible. And even today this witch-hunt is still going
on.
My website: http://home.hetnet.nl/~ae.de.heer/IndexScript.htm
with enough intrest in the subject it is likely that I will publish
a book about my research, including the reproduced original text.
Re: Oera Linda Book
Date: 2006-08-12 05:47 pm (UTC)I'm not saying that the Oera Linda Book is a late twentieth, or even early twenty-first century hoax. The Daughters of Frya were, however, and have admitted this in public forum.
As for the book, evidence would appear to indicate that it was probably written in the mid-nineteenth century, and is roughly contemporary with the Book of Mormon and similar works. I've actually read it--not the translation provided by the DoF because they also admit they rewrote parts, but other translations. There are a lot of concerns addressed in the OLB had that have no cultural context in pre-conversion Europe as far as I know, but would have had a lot of context in the mid-to-late-nineteenth century.
There's also the matter of the age of the paper of the earliest known manuscript, but as the book says that one is supposed to edit it, that's not necessarily relevant.
But, still--being written a hundred fifty years ago doesn't mean it can't be used as the basis for a faith. It doesn't make it untrue, but it does make it not old, and its claims, at best, unverifiable.
-- Lorrie